I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of flicker and high voltages in my setup. I have 2 Xantrex SW+ 5548's which are hooked to 16 Trojan L16H in two banks at 48V. The Metro Lister 6/1 CS with ST-5 feeds the inverters at 220V, 110V pole into each inverter with the neutrals bridged. The inverters just pass AC through, using some to charge the batteries. For the first hour or so this is fine since it tends to load both poles evenly. After that it starts floating the batteries and just takes around 7 amps from one pole and doesn't use the other. The problem is that this causes the loaded inverter to pull a nice 107V from the ST-5 but the other inverter that isn't charging the batteries is now unloaded and running at 138V! The ST-5 groans when you load only one side, well it groans if you load just one pole and growls if you load just the other. The only reason I need two of these inverters is to run the well pump, 5500W is plenty for the rest of my household needs. My idea was to rewire the ST-5 to give me evenly loaded 110V and feed one inverter that would basically function as a charge controller, and pull all my house power off the other inverter which should give me clean inverted power from the batteries and the other inverter would just pull more amps from the CS to keep the battery voltage up. Before I go rewiring my breaker panel, anyone have any thoughts on my hair brained schemes? ;D
Thanks!
-Jedon
Get a 240/120 transformer, and set the ST head up for 240V Use the 240 for the pump, and pull off the transformer, 120V for the rest.
It's a big transformer.
for my setup, I'm using a XW6048, and feeding 240 from the ST, into the XW, and charging battery bank from that, and counting on the beefy XW 240 output to handle it all. The XW6048 is a split phase output, no transformers needed. With solar, I hope to only fire up genset to charge every other day in winter.
Aren't those buck transformers around $500?
I can get 240V out of the bridged inverters, why spend money on a transformer?
Not trying to be defensive, just wondering.
Inverter#1 - powers most of the house and does not have AC input therefore ( I think! ) inverting from DC clean power
Inverter#2 - other 110V leg to 220V well pump as well as some of the house load like perhaps the dryer or something. Has AC 110V input from the generator and charges the batteries.
I do have 780W of PV hooked directly to the battery bank, no charge controller. Open voltage 65-69V, sometimes gets the batteries up to 52.2V, hopefully more in the summer.
Hmm maybe I have a neutral issue?
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67923
Quote from: Jedon on November 16, 2009, 04:06:32 PM
I can get 240V out of the bridged inverters, why spend money on a transformer?
Because you use the transformer to balance the ST, then you let the transformer take the imbalance. But why not parallel the 2 ST windings, and make full power that way.
Is there a way to parallel the ST windings for 120V, 2x amps? or are you stuck with 2 unbalanced windings ? MAybe different heads have different options.
Yes, the transformer is spendy, but their bearings last a long time.
Making a detailed system wiring diagram might solve your problem (i.e. neutral)- we can see what's wrong or you'll find it yourself when doing it. You will see some very big voltage swings if you end up using the earth grounding system as the primary neutral path. But ST's are famous for not liking a load imbalance.
Step up/down transformers are pretty cheap now on ebay. $200 for 5000 watts, less for less. You can get an extra 8% efficiency with toroidal transformers, if you're in the mood and don't mind the extra bucks.
Mike, http://utterpower.com/installa.htm
Bruce, Hmm thanks I'll check that out. Any term I should use when searching? 8% better than normal ( 2% loss? ) or 8% overall losses?
Why not dump the ST head and go with one or two nice 48 vdc alternators instead?
Power the house et all from the battery bank using the inverters and replenish using the Lister when necessary.
The Lister can cause all the flicker it wants and it won't matter one bit.
Also sets you up for using wind or solar when the time is right.
This has been my plan all along.
Steve
Wouldn't I need to dump the 48V from the alternator into a charge controller?
I had considered that, I was also contemplating bucking the 120V down to 60V from the ST and rectifying it.
I believe that you'd just disable the charging on the Xantrex's (so they don't buck against the alternator) and make sure you buy alternators with built-in regulators.
99% of them already have regs built-in to them so it's a non issue. I posted awhile back (can't remember which forum) regarding 48 vdc high output units that are used in ambulances and rigs like that which need lots of power. Looked to me to be the perfect fit...
Bob has also talked about rewiring a STC head to take advantage of the 60 volt leg and that would be another option but would need a charge controller.
Steve
A regular transformer might be 85%, a toroid 93%. Both vary some based on quality, but toroidal transformers are typically premium made.
Seems like a charge regulator for both PV and AC is what you need. A smarter charger will make your batteries last a lot longer- temperature compensation and proper peak charging- (not a fixed voltage) are the way to go.
Ouch 15% loss is pretty high!
Charge regulator is the same as a charge controller? I need a MPPT or just a PWM? I have two PV banks of disparate panels and will be putting in hydro in the next year or so.
Xantrex blurb says the charger has: Multi-stage charging Bulk, absorption, float/silent, and equalize and is temperature compensated.
Yep, that's a smart charger, will make your batteries last longer, and fill up faster on PV since they'll take it all the way to full much faster than a dopey fixed voltage charger. PPT is of some help in efficiency, too, in some lighting conditions.
All the smart chargers are using PWM- it's cheap and efficient, though it spews EMI all over your system (though no worse than the inverter). Someday in the distant future there may be specs on these emissions for biological health reasons. Meanwhile, dirty PWM based systems are all that's available.
Quote from: BruceM on November 17, 2009, 10:50:51 AM
............... though it spews EMI all over your system (though no worse than the inverter). Someday in the distant future there may be specs on these emissions for biological health reasons. Meanwhile, dirty PWM based systems are all that's available.
Bruce, this it off topic and I don't want to sound nosy, but it seems that you have a big thing against EMI ???
I read somewhere that you said it influence health issues. An old timer I knew use to "cringe" when we drove near or underneath HT Power Lines and I couldn't understand it, I just thought he was paranoid.
Is there somewhere where I can read up on this, he's dead now, but maybe I could understand it better.
This might be why my "better half" is so full of s*** sometimes and I always use to blame the full moon when she starts! ;)
There is slow but growing acknowledgment that about 3% of the population have serious adverse reactions to EMFs, a larger group are affected but not acutely. An article by in the Jan. issue of Prevention magazine is co-written by a researcher friend of mine, Dr. Sam Milton (MD), perhaps I can forward that to you if you are interested.
I have MS and Epilepsy following a chemical injury in a new sick building which had aircraft composites being baked in the same closed space as my office, with the exhaust located less than 10 feet and upwind of the building "fresh air intake. Testing showed profound short and long term memory loss, and the pattern of cognitive impairment that comes with toxic exposure; still genius level in some areas, while functionally retarded in others. It has not improved my mood or personality.
My epilepsy is aggravated profoundly around electronics. This after a career in R&D of computers, software and electronics. I can't use a normal computer, or even have one in the house. I had to develop my own shielded projector, designed for low EMFs and using a line voltage halogen lamp. I designed an optically isolated, remoted processor, "passive matrix" keyboard as matrix strobed keyboards have me floored in minutes. The keyboard project was the most difficult, as it must be right in your lap. I developed an analog fiber link for video, audio and fiber keyboard/trackball (also custom), so the computer can reside in my shop while I'm working at my rear projection workstation. With this work that took me several years, I have had computer access for the last 7 years or so. I have vision problems which still make it stressful, but I manage.
I can't be in normal buildings for long at all now that fluorescent lights, computers and wireless systems are everywhere. I like going out but pay later dearly. I can only drive safely for short trips and with a specially modified diesel car (no electronic injection) with a solar panel in the roof to keep the battery topped off. Until a new cell tower was put in, I could go sailing on a local pond.
My MS gets "turned on" by very low level magnetic fields, so now all my shop tools are air powered.
What makes me angry besides for the impact on my life quality, is that it is readily technically solvable; we don't have to give up our technology, just learn to use it more wisely.
More than you wanted to know, but yes, I'm biased.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
HELL Bruce, as you know, there's nothing I can say about you misfortune that will make you feel any better, but rest assured in knowing that me/we take stuff for granted way to easy!!
From reading between the lines here on the forum, there's a lot of the regular guys with some serious health problems all over. I've got health issues for about 5 years now, but nowhere near the stuff your having and I thought I was bad and felt sorry for myself in the beginning, until I started looking around.
Anyway, all the best and "hats off" to you with the computer setup you created for yourself. That must be something to see though!
dubbleUJay
PS-Please sent me the document you referred to, I would love to read more about a subject I didn't even know existed until today. You should still have my email address I presume.
Quote from: Jedon on November 16, 2009, 02:54:38 PM
I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of flicker and high voltages in my setup.
-Jedon
Jedon,
I have been struggling with my ST head and Listeroid power for many years now. The 11HZ voltage change caused by the engines combustion event is only addressable by flywheel mass. Either on the engine and/or gen head. There is literally no way to electrically "adjust" this. The flicker will remain.
Your setup begs for the engine to only charge the batteries. Yes, it seems a charger/controller that would work with the PV's and the engine is in order. From an efficiency standpoint, I am not sure this is the greatest, however, the bottom line may be OK.
I guess the simple way would be to use the ST head to power your charger. Rather than converting to a DC generator.
I/We seem to have at least 4 options:
1. Use a 48V truck alternator instead of the ST-5 to charge the batteries directly. Disadvantage: No 3 stage charging, Advantage: simple(ish), easy, cheap, retain ST-5 for ?
2. Modify the ST-5 to put out ~60V DC into a solar charge controller to charge the batteries. Disadvantage: $ for charge controller, complexity and efficiency issues with converting the ST-55
3. Use one of my 2 inverter/chargers strictly as a charger. Advantage: no $, pretty easy. Disadvantage: lose 5500W of inverting power ( except the well and perhaps a few other non-flicker sensitive things ).
4. Use some other charger like a 48V golf cart charger hooked to the ST-5. Advantage: really simple, Disadvantage: Those chargers aren't cheap.
not sure i agree with your option list
1. where are you going to find a 48volt truck alternator? 12 or 24, but to my knowlege there are no 48 volt units
save for a couple exceedingly specialized units one of which is paired with a special inverter, the other which is set
for 48.0 vdc which will not charge a 48 volt battery.
of course there is a way around this as outlined in a certain white paper, which btw allows for programmable
3 stage charging and at a higher efficiency than is afforded by any other means you are thinking of.
2. the st head could be modified by simply splitting the coil groups, which would result in ~60vac output at full kwatt capacity
but when rectified the voltage would be 1.414 higher so you would need a purpose built regulator to control the field, which would
be more efficient than feeding the product of rectification through an mx60 or similar.
btw, this is not a bad option from a theoretical standpoint, but as no one has done it yet, we don't know what the result might be.
3. i suppose you could use the inverter chargers, and deal with another layer of conversion and its attendant losses?
4. use of a 48volt golf cart charger plugged into your st5? my bet is you would take a serious hit in efficiency unless you are prepared
to spend max dollars on a high efficiency charger, getting one with 3 step control, pf correction, and high efficiency is likely going to be
quite expensive,, likely the most expensive option and it will still not rank at the top in efficiency in my opinion.
options 1 and 2 will likely result in higher efficiency at the cost of a more complex system that you will have to build for the most part yourself,
options 3 and 4 will likely result in lower efficiency, with the benefit of being more or less plug and play, but at likely a much higher price
unless you already have the inverter/charger bought and paid for?
in my opinion there is no one right answer, it all depends on various factors, such as how deep are your pockets, how handy are you,
and how much effort to you want to expend...factored against overall cost and what your efficiency expectations are.
bob g
In real world practice, there is no difference between a ST head rectified to achieve DC and the 48V truck alternator (which is just a high voltage AC generator with a diode pack). The voltage regulation is simply varying voltage to the field.
Without getting too complex, I am fairly certain you could "convert" the ST head into a battery charger with good voltage regulation and all. Some simple control electronics and yes a transformer/rectifier would do the trick. I am not convinced that any re-wiring of the ST would get you close enough. But, you never know. Why not vary the field voltage?
To complicate the matter, engine RPM could be used as the voltage regulator, in part or.....
My friend at work has a highly modified GEM electric car with a 3500w Honda generator mounted on the back. He is doing exactly what I suggest you do. Charging the batteries and letting the batteries do the work. Using a heavy duty GEM car charger plugged right in to the Honda 115v outlet. MPG in gas only mode is about 90.
I clearly understand that each time we manipulate power, there is a substantial loss of efficiency. However, it's the overall system performance that really matters. Sure, the optimization of each component is important. But not at the expense of crummy power. What I think is that the overall system performance with the gen charging the batts can also be optimized and therefore result in the performance you are looking for. PMG's and the like alone, are not likely to result in better efficiency. But, running the enigne at higher and lower RPM depending on load is. Much more so than the slight percentage loss of power conversion.
As you can see, I am really liking the idea of a variable speed listeroid, maybe 400-800 RPM. A 400 RPM idle won't consume much fuel and 800RPM will provide a full 4500 watts easy without smoke. I think you can do it with an ST.
Bob said:
"rectified the voltage would be 1.414 higher"
True for a capacitor only-filter on a transformer-linear supply, which is also very rude, PF wise.
If an inductor is used as the primary filter (bulky expensive, but can be cobbled with a large surplus transformer), then DC volts=AC volts.
Quote1. where are you going to find a 48volt truck alternator?
Hey I got the idea from you by reading your white paper!
Quotethis is not a bad option from a theoretical standpoint, but as no one has done it yet
I'm not knowledgeable enough to be a guinea pig.
Quote3. i suppose you could use the inverter chargers, and deal with another layer of conversion and its attendant losses?
No more so than any other option using a charger right? I do already have the inverter, I got two Xantrex 5548's used and have them both hooked up, I really only need the 2nd to run the well though for 240V since the house doesn't use all that much power. I could just move wires around in the breaker panel so that it's not used for flicker sensitive items.
One issue with this is that my ST-6 groans if I use just one leg so I would want to modify it to bridge the poles or use a buck transformer.
QuoteAs you can see, I am really liking the idea of a variable speed listeroid
I like this idea also but it's far more involved than I want to get into right now, I have a lot of other projects to do trying to get the house done.
Another thing to consider is that I have about 300W of hydro capacity that I will install in the next year or two that will probably provide just about all our power when combined with the 780W of PV I already have so the generators will be run less in the long run and thus spending a lot of time and money making them perfect isn't appealing right now, although perhaps after I get other stuff going it would be a fun project.
Quotecan be cobbled with a large surplus transformer
Big old transformers seem useful, I start keeping my eye out at swap meets and such.
Quote from: BruceM on November 18, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
There is slow but growing acknowledgment that about 3% of the population have serious adverse reactions to EMFs, a larger group are affected but not acutely. An article by in the Jan. issue of Prevention magazine is co-written by a researcher friend of mine, Dr. Sam Milton (MD), perhaps I can forward that to you if you are interested.
I have MS and Epilepsy following a chemical injury in a new sick building which had aircraft composites being baked in the same closed space as my office, with the exhaust located less than 10 feet and upwind of the building "fresh air intake. Testing showed profound short and long term memory loss, and the pattern of cognitive impairment that comes with toxic exposure; still genius level in some areas, while functionally retarded in others. It has not improved my mood or personality.
My epilepsy is aggravated profoundly around electronics. This after a career in R&D of computers, software and electronics. I can't use a normal computer, or even have one in the house. I had to develop my own shielded projector, designed for low EMFs and using a line voltage halogen lamp. I designed an optically isolated, remoted processor, "passive matrix" keyboard as matrix strobed keyboards have me floored in minutes. The keyboard project was the most difficult, as it must be right in your lap. I developed an analog fiber link for video, audio and fiber keyboard/trackball (also custom), so the computer can reside in my shop while I'm working at my rear projection workstation. With this work that took me several years, I have had computer access for the last 7 years or so. I have vision problems which still make it stressful, but I manage.
I can't be in normal buildings for long at all now that fluorescent lights, computers and wireless systems are everywhere. I like going out but pay later dearly. I can only drive safely for short trips and with a specially modified diesel car (no electronic injection) with a solar panel in the roof to keep the battery topped off. Until a new cell tower was put in, I could go sailing on a local pond.
My MS gets "turned on" by very low level magnetic fields, so now all my shop tools are air powered.
What makes me angry besides for the impact on my life quality, is that it is readily technically solvable; we don't have to give up our technology, just learn to use it more wisely.
More than you wanted to know, but yes, I'm biased.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
It sure didn't seem to harm your mental capacity!
I have Hairy Cell Leukemia.
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Hairy+cell+leukemia
My red blood cells looked like they had a magnetic flux around them!
My Dr told me to stay away from welders, transformers, electric motors, etc.
He gave a pamphlet on the subject of EMI / magnetic flux.
LOL I thought the experts said this was all BS!
I'm sorry that you have the challenges that you do. No fun!
So here's a stupid question for you guys:
Have you considered shielding yourself rather than all of the stuff around you?
I'm thinking clothing that perhaps has a foil layer sandwiched between two layers of fabric... Essentially a faraday cage for the body. I envision each piece of clothing being grounded together with inconspicuous alligator clips that would eventually connect to a strap or plate on the bottom of the shoes for grounding.
I wonder if it'd work.
Just a thought...
Steve
PS - On a lighter note, you could even make a cone shaped foil hat and there most definitely would be no golfing on rainy days... ;D
Ah yes, Steve, the tin hat, I knew that would come up. ::)
My MS is turned on by power line magnetic fields (h-fields)- they can't be shielded except by massive ferrous materials, silicon steel (transformer lamination material) or exotic hydrogen anneal nickel alloys like Conetic alloy. (They don't reflect like e-fields, the magnetic flux lines can only be re-directed through the more attractive path of the alloy.) I have worked with these materials for 20 years, but getting a 60 percent reduction is typically about the best you can expect. (A simple wrap of silicon steel around a typical induction motor will cut the field in half,) Distance and better design are more effective.
Electric (e-fields) are easily reflected by conductive materials, such as aluminum foil, screen, even very thin layers such as used in Low-E glass or UV films and there are metalized fabrics
Problems with shielding, for say driving by cell towers are that you'd like to be able to see, and microwave wavelengths are so tiny that tiny slits leak too much. I can barely notice a 30 decibel improvement, 60db feels like 50% better. (60db is one millionth) For some sort of suit, you'd be lucky to get 20 or 30dB, for the price of looking like a freak. I'd rather suffer in silence and presenting the illusion of normalcy.
Dr Sam Milham visited me recently, a brave researcher and a man truly concerned about the public health situation re: increasing dirty power. This AM he asked me to talk to one of the other leading researchers, Dr Magdas Havas in Toronto. I did and was very impressed. www.magdahavas.com She is seeing about 35% of people with MS responding amazingly (remission even for chronic progressives) with cleaning up their electrical environment.
I'm amazed at your doctor, WB. It is rare to see such advanced thinking in a practicing MD. Mostly they get any original thoughts beaten out of them by the Med. School/internship hazing process. The thinking, learning, interested types are rare as hen's teeth, you are lucky to have him.
I worry about my off grid friends here, and guys doing grid tie inverters, as the researchers in the know show that that this is some of the nastiest power quality for the high frequency stuff that research indicates is be inducing our autoimmune and cancer epidemic.
Military grade power filters can be found surplus, and while a big pain to install, they really do give -100dB reductions. Both inverter output, and the lead-outs to the PV array and/or wind need to be filtered, lest the PV system becomes a big antenna. Conducted radiation will radiate via any path, it doesn't care if you label it an input.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
"For some sort of suit, you'd be lucky to get 20 or 30dB, for the price of looking like a freak. I'd rather suffer in silence and presenting the illusion of normalcy."
Understood.
Just to be clear, the reason that I mentioned sandwiching foil (or something like that - metal fibers?) between layers of fabric was to make the clothing as normal looking as possible.
The intent here was to find a solution that would help while not letting others know one was wearing anything special. Bruce, I'm sure if it's affecting you in the way that you describe, there are others suffering the effects that would also benefit. And I'm also guessing that they too, would prefer a solution that others don't know they are wearing...
Bummer that it's so tough to shield from.
I've started a thread regarding building a system from scratch to minimize EMF noise. I would love learn more.
I just couldn't resist the tin hat part. I was very serious regarding the clothing idea. I hope you didn't take offense!
Regards,
Steve
I suppose a very big reality is that most people don't know about it! They are feeling crappy and sick and don't know why ???
Getting treatment for all types of other causes.
Steve, Heck no, I knew you were being helpful, it's just that after living with this for 20 years the idea of the special suit (which I jokingly call the "tin hat" solution) is a very common suggestion. Plus "tin hat" has a psycho bent that makes it more entertaining. I do have a sense of humor, still. Thanks for being the nice guy you are.
Cool thread! How did I miss this?! Same questions I've had, too, and was thinking about starting a thread here about it.
Jedon, do you have solar panels with a charge controller? If so, which charge controller? What about this, step down the AC voltage a little with a surplus transformer from e-bay, through a high capacity bridge rectifier and capacitor filter, then into the same charge controller as your PV panels. A good MPPT charge controller works with varying voltage and current, so the dirty power from the Lister shouldn't matter. You don't run the Lister unless the solar panels aren't keeping up (rain, snow, above average use, etc.), so you won't overload the charge controller. Then you get clean power from the inverters no-matter-what, and it acts like a giant UPS. Before you guys rip me to shreds, see more details below.
You essentially have the same setup I have, except my house is not built yet. So even though my power system is installed, it doesn't have much of a load yet. My setup:
2 Outback 3600W inverters stacked for 120/240 volt for house and well.
16 x L16 batteries @ 48 V just like you.
Outback MX80 charge controller charging the batteries from a 3000+ watt array of solar panels.
6/1 listeroid connected to a ST 7.5 which is connected to the charging/AC in circuit on the inverters, one of the out-of-phase 120 V legs going into each inverter.
When the 'roid is running, the inverter function is killed and the inverters charge the batteries. The inverters then just function like a pass-through for the power. When running on Lister power, anytime I plug in a fluorescent light, it flickers like crazy. Anything else is not a problem. But I don't want to get rid of fluorescent lights. How else do you light a shop?! (Yes, I'm a doctor, but I'm not going to get into the EMF discussion yet.)
It would seem, the better way to do it is to let the inverters invert only. But I don't want to lose the 120 V output of the 'roid, so exchanging the ST head for an alternator is not an option. Besides you still have to get it up to charging voltage which is greater than 48 VDC (like mentioned by Mobile_Bob). I still want a few outlets to be able to be power-fed from the 6/1 directly. My idea is to set the ST head for 120 V only (not split 240), then route its output in 2 directions. First, to a power outlet on the wall next to it for emergency power (w/ appropriate breakers, etc. of course). Second, to the step down transformer --> bridge rectifier --> capacitor filter --> charge controller. Probably needs back-feed prevention back to the ST head, correct? Breakers where? Use automatic transfer switch to separate the PV side from ST head side of circuit? Capacitor size? I'd take any help! ***hint, hint*** I discussed it with our installer, Alternative Power & Machine, in Grants Pass, OR. He thought it would work fine, but we haven't got into the details. Seems pretty easy and not very expensive option.
Marcus
It may be tough to find, but some electronic ballasts actually do voltage regulation on the tube drive. That would solve your problem, though as I said, it's going to be a fishing trip.
The rest of the plan sounds good except for a high current linear supply you will have better PF by far with an inductor as your primary filter. I've had good luck using large toroidal transformers as inductors, but E core transformers will work too, if you go a bit larger. Look for at least double the rated current of your proposed filtered DC amps, use a secondary if you must, double in series if you need more filtering. Capacitance after the inductor won't affect the PF much, in your case you'll not need any. A henry is a wonderful thing, and substantial.
Maybe the lights were just too cheap. Do the more expensive ones have better ballasts? You say it's a fishing trip, but is there a way to tell about the ballasts besides the trial-and-error method.
Thank you BruceM. Looks like I need to read about inductor filters.
Marcus
No way to find out which electronic ballast design does output regulation short of trying them, the companies don't let engineers answer questions on the phone, you only get baloney from non-tech idiots. It would make sense to try more expensive, non-bargain, China ballasts.
QuoteJedon, do you have solar panels with a charge controller? If so, which charge controller?
I have 780W of panels, 2 of them output 69.5V, the other 2 65.9V. I have them wired together and hooked directly to the battery bank without a charge controller. I know I am losing capacity but I didn't have the money to spring for a $500 MPPT charge controller
Flickering lights for me is sometimes an issue and sometimes not depending on how the generator is loaded.
The Halo fluorescent recessed lights I have in the kitchen do not flicker, I guess they have good ballasts.
The incandescents flicker really bad and the normal CFL's are in between. The LED's act like the incandescents.
Marcus, why not keep the ST and use a truck alternator also? That way you have 120V and 240V right from the 6/1 plus you have DC to charge the batteries? I know this incurs some loss spinning the ST.
I have acquired some more stuff and was hoping it might help.
Trace 2512SB 2500W 12V inverter/charger
8 6V golf cart batteries.
If I could just use the Trace as a charger that would be great but it's a 12V not 48V charger.
I don't really want to use the power from it for the house, it's modified sine not pure sine like my Xantrex 5548's and is half the power.
Ya know, a number of windmill generators are 48V nominal. I wonder if you can contact a manufacturer of those generators and purchase one for lister use via belt drive. This might be the easiest way to produce the DC power to charge the batts with the Lister.
Jedon, yes, I could run an ST head and alternator, but aren't 48 volt alternators quite expensive? Where do you get them? And then I'd need a separate charge controller, too, correct?
cujet, a windmill generator is an interesting idea, but they're all like $1000, unless homebuilt. Maybe I'll ask my local supplier and see if he can get just the generator with out the pretty cowling, blades, tower mount system, etc., and see what the cost is.
Marcus