Gentlemen / Ladies
Is this hype or is there something to it? Opinions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klcBRnyCSvo
Dieselfox
who makes the filter?
fleetgard?
if so it won't take long for someone here to get there hands on one and give it a real world test.
bob g
I used to do the same demo when I was a factory rep for the Motorguard filters.
Tom
Was it a special Motorguard filter or the regular run of the mill car/truck filters?
Dieselfox
I filter my WMO thru a series of filters, 30 and 10 on its way to a holding tank, then 5 and 2 into a storage tank, then finally thru a 1 micron filter in 5 gallon batches for use. The oil is the same color as when it started.
Bob
DieselFox,
It was a system for filtering vacuum pump oil. The TP roll filters was Northern TP on a plastic core. There was a pressure and a gear motor pump all for the low, low price of $1k..... in 1982!
I remember being out on my uncle's fishing troller in about 1973; his Detroit Diesel had an aftermarket oil filter that used a roll of paper towels as a core. I remember well because I helped him change it.....
This same video is on another thread. So I'll write about the same thing here as there:
"It was nice to hear a spec on how small most automobile filters go. I wonder if the cheaper ones get the smaller stuff or the standards are just less reliable?
I have one of those canister style oil filters where the element slides inside a filter can like pre full-flow automobile filters. What would happen if I put one of these filters on my engine? Or just converted to the spin on filter system - Any advantage?
Casey"
LowGear
I really don't have an answer to your question. It all comes down to flow and filtering size. If the video is right and all these large diesel engine companies, CAT, MACK, CUMMINS, DETROIT DIESEL, indicate a the 4 to 7 micron size particulates (which makes the oil black), are the most damaging to the engine, you will need a filter can catch this size of particles.
I drive a diesel car and the oil is always black. To eliminate wear I use a fully synthetic oil. Here I have just been piss.... in the wind. Well the diesel engine I am rebuilding is not one I will trade like a new car. It is at least 45 years old. I has cost me dearly to purchase, and rebuild. The point - I want it to last another 40 years. I know it will because it is over built and can if I put the right filtering system on it, and then make sure there is oil in the bearings before I start it up (another large cause of wear).
If done right, it should last forever.
Anyway, I have been doing some research and if you want to search it out, there are what they call Dual Bypass Filtration Systems. I might put one on my car now I know better. I just wanted to share what I have learned with everyone because I know there are those who feel about their engines the way I do.
Dieselfox
Sorry to pop your balloon, but your diesel is not going to last forever.
You might slightly increase the life.
Usually a diesel is near the end of it's service life when it becomes hard to start.
That is a cylinder sealing problem. Rings or valves.
Clean oil has no effect on valve contact wear.
Valve guides don't get much oil either. They usually have seals on them to keep oil out.
Piston rings get most of their abuse at the top of their travel, where there is almost no oil, and that oil is scorched & contaminated with combustion byproducts at every cycle, then shoved downward by blowby then the oil control ring.
I have an oil bypass filter, also a full flow filter, and oil temperature control too. I hope they add life, but don't expect miracles.
SHIPCHIEF
I agree with everything you have stated. I wish I had your set up. I am a long way off from where you are.
I can replace the piston and rings, and valve guides fairly easily and plan on doing that. It is just when I have to tear down the engine to pull the crank shaft because the main bearings are worn, for no good reason, that I start thinking there has to be a better way.
You left out 70 percent of the engine,(gears, camshafts, oil pump etc). When they are worn out or get lose, well you are really hosed.
I have some pics of main bearings I would like to show you. How do you display images anyway? Can't figure that out.
When I cleaned the housing out, there were little flakes of metal in the bottom. They had no idea oil filtration was necessary for these small engines. The throw away mentality of our society - I just don't understand.
Anyway thanks for your input. Again I agree with you. Sometimes it is hard to stare reality in the face.
Dieselfox.
To post a pic, type your reply, then click the additional options down at the lower left of the message box,
that will bring up a menu that allows up to 4 attachments with a max size of 750 kb. I use Picasa, a free program by Google to resize my pics, you may have a different favorite, but anyway, that's the gist of it.
Ron
While I was stumbling around this video I cam across this other one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIx4Y3TvAPk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIx4Y3TvAPk&feature=related)
Pretty interesting huh?
Casey
Here are some pics of a single cylinder diesel engine, with a wire screen filter. Did a lousy job as you can see in the main bearings and piston bearing.
Dieselfox
Those deep gouges don't look like they were caused by 10 micron or smaller dirt, it looks more like sand.
I thought my ASHWAMEGH was clean after a visual inspection. But George talked me into changing the idler gear, and I found black muck in the bottom of my sump.
7 hours of running time when I tore it down, and the bearings looked like your pictures. I'm with Tom on this one.
Oh, my machine came with a suction screen.
I can't imagine running ANY engine without an oil filter, a screen is just ridiculous.
Quote from: fabricator on October 29, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
I can't imagine running ANY engine without an oil filter, a screen is just ridiculous.
BUT... VERY FEW small single cylinder engines have oil filters!!!!
I'm really talking about the sand boxes from India.
Gentlemen
There was no sand in my engine when I rebuilt it. It is a Volvo MD1, and has an excellent casting. The scratches you see came from little flecks of steel, very small and flat, from somewhere in the engine. They had collected in the sump pan where I found them. I imagine they would have easily been taken out of the system by a conventional oil filter, but this engine only had a screen. They passed right through.
When I do start this up, it will have an oil filter on it. This means I will have to install an auxiliary oil pump as I have seen in other installations. This however will allow me to install a "bypass" filter to clean as well as filter the oil. I have decided on a Frantz Filter. Over-kill I know, but these engines are a hobby.
Dieselfox
Just a question, dieselfox - but in your last post, what is meant by the statement "clean as well as filter the oil." ? Is there some other mechanism other than mechanical filtration of the oil taking place somehow, with this type of filter?
Cognos
It comes down to how well the filter takes out particulates. Regular "full flow" filters catch anything around 30 microns or larger. A bypass can take down to 2 microns or less. Of course it does this slowly, so it cannot be a "full flow" filter. It will eventually get all the oil say several times a hour.
Diesel soot in the oil is around 4 to 7 microns. This is what I meant by "cleaning" the oil. A good bypass filter will even get the soot.
Dieselfox
and you can always drop a magnet into the sump, it will snag any iron particles swirling around
Then again if you have clean engine we need to remember here that the original Lister CS engines ran 24/7 for years with no fancy oil filters and in less than optimum conditions and millions of diesel engines have run billions of miles using nothing but spin on filters.
I see. So it's just fine filtration. Certainly can't hurt.
Quote from: cognos on November 01, 2011, 09:42:13 AM
Just a question, dieselfox - but in your last post, what is meant by the statement "clean as well as filter the oil." ? Is there some other mechanism other than mechanical filtration of the oil taking place somehow, with this type of filter?
There are various centrifuges available for cleaning engine oil, and can be worth looking into.
Quote from: LincTex on November 02, 2011, 10:51:32 AM
Quote from: cognos on November 01, 2011, 09:42:13 AM
Just a question, dieselfox - but in your last post, what is meant by the statement "clean as well as filter the oil." ? Is there some other mechanism other than mechanical filtration of the oil taking place somehow, with this type of filter?
There are various centrifuges available for cleaning engine oil, and can be worth looking into.
I have a tractor with a centrifugal oil filter OEM. It will pull a bunch of nasty stuff out of the oil, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleans'
it, it's still BLACK! :D I'm not aware of anything that the do it yourself-er can do that will filter/clean to the point of removing the black from diesel oil.
Ron
Quote from: vdubnut62 on November 02, 2011, 11:08:32 AM
I'm not aware of anything that the do it yourself-er can do that will filter/clean to the point of removing the black from diesel oil.
Not impossible... but VERY difficult to do!
Besides, the color isn't important.
I am very curious as to what micron level various centrifuges will clean out.
Besides your Belarus tractor, Scania diesel engines also use centrifuges.
I have a semi-truck slavage yard near me....
and have never been able to locate a centrifuge on any of the wrecks they have hauled in.