Looking at the possibility of putting together several reduced speed yanmar clone gensets similar to the one Central Maine Diesel sells. For those unfamiliar with the CMD unit here is a link http://www.generatorsales.com/order/yanmar_4kw.asp?page=yanmar_4kw.
Looks like this unit is set up to run the engine at reduced engine RPM, probably somewhere around peak torque while relying on pulley ratio to obtain 3600 shaft RPM on the alternator.
There are many brands of Yanmar clones available at different price points, and it seems impossible to tell which would be best. Same problem with the genhead, I think it would be best to use a two pole unit as it would make pulley selection easier, but I am struggling to find any suitable two pole two bearing genheads that appear to be well built. Then there is the problem of finding pulleys that will fit the engine and alternator.
Looking for any suggestions for sourcing parts and advise concerning durability of the various brands.
Thanks, Mike H.
Looking at the engine specs for the Chinese L100 clone it appears that 2000 RPM would be the best engine speed. At this speed the engine makes 8 H.P. and consumes 250 g/kw-h of fuel. This could be a cool project if a decent inexpensive alternator could be sourced. Cheapest one I could find that would probably be reliable would be an ST. Even with an ST the total cost would be approaching the cost of a complete Chinese diesel genset, and would only be worth the time and money if the fuel burn and overall unit reliability were better than the commercial units. What do you guys think? ???
They are careful to not state the engine rpm.
At best, they may have slowed it to 3300 otherwise it can't make the power they claim.
The engine is a 408cc, L100. It puts out 10hp @ 3600 rpm
They advertise the generator package as a 5kw unit.
To make 5kw they need the full 10HP ------> or 3600 rpm. ??
They state a continuous output of 4.5 kw which would require 9HP, so its not evident how they do it with a "slower speed".
I slowed my L186 , 418cc generator to 2500 rpm and the best it can do is 4kw before putting out black smoke.
So, how is this possible that they have a 5kw gen set with a slow speed 408cc L100 ?
Not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't make any sense to me ???
I too wanted to use a high speed diesel and slow it down. Here's how it turned out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXy6uQBj7YY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXy6uQBj7YY)
veggie
Here's the perf curve for the larger L186, 418cc engine.
3500 rpm = 10hp
2500 rpm = 8hp
2000 rpm = 6.5hp
(and that's at sea level)
veggie
I agree that the power output numbers for the CMD unit do not seem possible, but the concept is interesting. The "L100" clone I am looking at is rated for 10HP so maybe it is really a "L186".
Veggie, you're set up looks great! What kind of alternator is that? What is the fuel burn at 4kw? Are you happy with the unit?
Thanks, Mike.
Mecc Alte heads are decent, lower priced heads. They're made in Italy, not China, and are from a real manufacturer that is similar to Marathon in quality. From the link you posted, Mecc Alte is also what CMD appears to be using. You might contact them for pricing on the genheads. They're good guys!
Some other sources:
http://www.brandnewengines.com/generatorheads.aspx
No, I'm not associated with the above company in any way. I simply searched eBay, found them, and linked to their site because their prices seemed reasonable.
Northern Tool also carries them just branded under their own NorthStar name:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_generators+generator-heads
I have bought multiple Mecc Alte heads and have been very pleased with them. When I bought mine, I was trying to find something better in quality than the ST variants, and Mecc Alte had the best quality to price point that I was able to find. Copper windings, brushless, good bearings, metal fan, low distortion, manufactured in an ISO 9001 plant, good parts availability, etc. Real products built by a real generator head manufacturer that's been in business for a long time. I really wanted US made, but wasn't able to find anything for a reasonable price. The US variants are Baldor and Marathon and both are brutal from a pricing perspective.
Below is the model that I have several of. I'm sure any of the others would also be fine. I do like that the other models that have the outlets already installed. It would be very convenient if building a portable/semi permanent unit to have the cord is easily detachable. Would minimize wiring hassles and the installation of a separate breaker/output box. In hindsight, it would have been easier and would have saved about $100 when all was said and done.
http://www.brandnewengines.com/S16F-180BD.aspx
Keep in mind that the models that I've linked to are 3600 RPM, 2 pole heads. They also make 1800 RPM, 4 pole heads but they are more expensive.
Good luck with your project!
Steve
Quote from: piperpilot3tk on September 08, 2011, 05:32:34 AM
I agree that the power output numbers for the CMD unit do not seem possible, but the concept is interesting. The "L100" clone I am looking at is rated for 10HP so maybe it is really a "L186".
Veggie, you're set up looks great! What kind of alternator is that? What is the fuel burn at 4kw? Are you happy with the unit?
Thanks, Mike.
Hi Mike,
The head is a "Voltmaster" from Wanco in Colorado.
Fairly good quality.
They have dealers all over the USA.
Model is AB50 and is rated at 4kw continuous (5kw intermittent).
I'm quite happy with the unit. I think the engines are very well built and quite reliable.
My father now has this unit as a backup power system.
keep us posted of your progress (and post pictures or a youtube vid),
Veggie
The Voltmaster is sold at the place that Steve posted above.
Look on this page.....
http://www.brandnewengines.com/generatorheads.aspx (http://www.brandnewengines.com/generatorheads.aspx)
Not a bad price.
veggie
Veggie,
Just checked out the vid of the unit you built.
Nice job! Very clean. I also really like the belt cover.
Excellent work!
Best regards,
Steve
Apogee,
Thanks for the kind words.
It's a very simple unit.
Engine, Belt drive, generator head.
The belt drive is sized to run the generator at 3600 when the engine is running at 2500 rpm.
My concern was noise and engine life.
A big bonus with these air cooled diesels is that they come with starter motors.
veggie
Thanks for all the information guys!
From looking at the various published fuel consumption curves, 2700 RPM seems to be the ideal number for those engines. With 2500, not far off.
If the belt drive is efficient, there are savings there. Regardless of total maximum output.
The clone engines used to have a history of failures. Some internet pics show the counterbalance shaft causing case cracks. Some show broken connecting rods. In any case, the reduction in RPM is very likely to result in much reduced risk of structural failure.
I like the idea of a clone powered genset very much. I have no problem with 3600 RPM heads, and I suspect that there is no difference in lifespan when quality 1800RPM vs. 3600RPM heads are compared.
In fact, the published fuel consumption numbers are lower than the listeroids!
Veggie, are you seeing excellent fuel consumption numbers? Very nice set up!
Cujet,
Sorry, I can't offer much in the way of fuel usage data. I have never checked.
I would not be surprised if the specific fuel consumption was lower than a roid. More modern design engine and direct injection.
veggie
I have a 418 running at 3600 and I would love to slow down to 2700. Where did you get your pulleys? If I am calculating correctly I would need a 5 inch and 4 inch pulley.
Nice job...
Rob
Neelix,
The pulleys are available at any Power Transmission supply store.
Tell them the desired speed of your engine and the speed of your generator head, HP, and shaft sizes.
They will calculate the best drive for you.
veggie
Hi,
I'm new to this forum, and new but learning, about design and build of Gensets with diesel.
I am about 90% complete on a project to build a reduced speed diesel Genset. I used the CarrolStream 10HP clone with the Voltmaster AB50. It is throttled down to 2700RPM with a belt-driven reducer, and works great. All built on a nice steal plate frame and on wheels for transport, as needed.
I do not have fuel consumption data yet, but will this summer as I complete the install. I chose to do this because of all the power outages in CT this past year. I have home heating oil, so going diesel was a natural. I just couldn't bare buying the crap at HD or Lowes knowing that I could do it so much better, and have fun learning at the same time.
What has been the most fun about this project has been the automation of the Genset.
I added a few items to the engine: A solenoid throttle (Trombetta), a couple of Hall-effect sensors on the 2 shafts for RPM monitoring, and Temperature and Pressure sensors to monitor enclosure environment.
I hooked it all up with a micro-controller (Arduino-Mega) and automated the whole process. My micro-controller is even a web-server where I can log-on to it from anywhere, even with my cell phone, and turn the Genset on/off, monitor it's output, etc. The controller automatically powers on the unit when power is lost to the house, sends me a text message when it happens, and stores log-files and data-files on a local SD card to graph historical performance and environmental data.
My last big part of this project is to construct a nice concrete platform and sound/weather proof enclosure for it next to the house. Any advice in this area would be greatly appreciated.
I'm adding a fan to the enclosure, to keep it cool when operating, and of course, this will be driven and monitored by the micro-C.
Also, I originally wanted to actively control the speed of the engine, with the micro-controller, since I have the RPM sensors, but opted to simply do it passively with a single-pull solenoid (Trobetta). However, I am a little concerned on how long, unattended, the RPM will stay within range with just a simple pull-to-stop throttle scheme. Especially with the amount of vibration, over time. It seems OK now, but does anyone have any long-term experience or suggestions?
Thanks
I am in the finishing stages of building a reduced speed genset from a 6 HP, electric start Yanmar clone engine from Launtop. I set the pulleys to give 3600 RPM on the alternator with 2700 RPM on the engine. In 'bolted down to a board trials', it appeared happy up to 2500 watts output. I suspect it will be very fuel efficient.
rcavictim,
What is the best way to test output wattage? How do you know that you are outputting 2500 watt on your rig? When testing fuel-efficiency and output, I want to load the generator to maybe something like 80%, or so. Do you simply plug in a hair-dryer or something? I would prefer a more direct measure. Any ideas?
Thanks.
Hi,
For my project above, I guess I can summarize a few areas that I could use some guidance/input. If someone can point me to an area of the forum, or a member, who might best help in each of these areas that would be VERY appreciated.
1) Throttle control
- Like I said above, I'm using a Trombetta P613-K currently. I made a home-made bracket to mount it to the engine and adjusted the stop to set the engine at 2700 RPM.
- My concern is about long-term RPM stability, either due to vibrations loosening bolts, cable stretch, thermal drift, etc.
- Are there any simple ways to add active control to the throttle? Is this even necessary, typically?
- Any suggestions for proper throttle mount? (I can send a pict of my setup for reference.)
2) RPM sensor
- I currently have 2 Hamlin 55075 Hall Effect sensors mounted on a home-made bracket, sensing the shaft keys on both the engine and the generator (AB50).
- I built a circuit using LM2917 chips and balanced R1/C1 to give appropriate output voltages for the 2700 and 3600RPM speeds.
- Since I am sensing the key, the sensor only sees one pulse per revolution. My RPM output varies a little (+/- 100RPM overall) and I would like to get a better lock/stable reading.
- My sense is that adding something like a small Gear to the shaft, and sensing the teeth, would produce many more pulses per revolution and generate a more stable reading.
- I just don't want to fork out $60 for a gear for this. Any ideas?
3) Fuel Flow measurement
- It's maybe overkill, but I have been looking around for a cheap in-line flow sensor to monitor fuel consumption rates. It would be pretty cool, if cheap enough.
- Does anything like this exist that would give me a 5V DC output scaled to mL/min or something?
4) Oil Pressure Sensing
- I have seen much talk about Oil Pressure sensors.
- How can I easily add a oil pressure sensor?
- Do I add it right at one of the plugs to the oil reservoir of the engine?
- Where do I get one of these, and which one would be appropriate for this engine (CarrolStream 10Hp electric Start)?
5) Sound and Weather-proof enclosure.
- I plan to pour a concrete slab foundation for my Genset in a couple months.
- I was thinking of making my own, double walled, ventilated with a fan, enclosure.
- I have looked at simply using one of those prefab plastic enclosure, but I am not sure how effective they are, and whether I might be able to make a better one, for less.
- References to previous projects would be nice to get some input on the design.
- Any members with some good experience and plans?
- I also plan to pipe the exhaust up the outside of my chimney, to get the fumes up and away. So the enclosure has to have a good system to port out the exhaust.
6) Automation
- And finally, are there any members that have done similar automation builds, particularly using Arduino micro-C?
- It would be nice to compare notes, sketches, diagrams, and design ideas.
Thanks.