Ok I decided to build a 12v gas powered charger using a B&S 5 hp , a 12si and a pair of Trojan 6v's or 12v's to start and adding on. From reading all of your posts I've come to the conclusion that eventually a Hybrid system is going to cover most of my applications. So I would rather invest in agrowing Battery bank / Inverter and grow the system with Some solar , eventually ending up a 3kw diesel Gen set.
a couple of questions:
Is oversizing my inverter so I can grow into it OK ?
My understanding is 6v's will be slower to discharge and faster to recharge ???
AT this point should I hook up my 80 w sharp panel to a separate Battery or send it all to the available bank?
Sorry for the newb ?'s , but I'm just a DIY guy trying to get up to speed.
Thx
A log of questions here.
It is ok to oversize the inverter, however larger inverters usually have larger idle currents. Also as the draw increases on a battery bank the output voltage will drop even on fully charged batteries. When the draw is decreased voltage will recover. On a small battery bank with a large inverter you may be able to draw enough power to trigger the inverters low voltage cutout at high loads. Running your charger during high loads will help.
No difference in charging with the 6v's. A battery bank will have given amp hour capacity. With deep cycle batts you will be able to safely draw 80% of that capacity with out damaging the batts. It will take the given amp hours drawn + around 15% to recharge the bank.
Hook the panel to a charge controller and hook the controller to the battery bank. Don't want to boil all the water out of your new batts.
80 w is a pretty small panel, but it will keep the batteries topped off to prevent self-discharge from killing them.
I had the panel from my RV. I'm going to add on to my solar array as we go along. WE just put the foundation in and I need some power on site. BUt I want the components to be part of the total system. When we used to be OTG in the RV all I kept saying is "I wish I had more Battries" . So I'm trying to build up my battery bank and ways of keeping them charged/. I'm really liking the idea of a Motor driven DC charger for now. I already have the motor sitting around.
Looking at some trojans or Sun Extender's next
Ok I ordered a Leece -Neville 110-555jho for my DC gen/ charger. I've read on posts about having to rectify the output going to the Batteries ? And also would like clarification about the charging process, monitoring it and how to make it work with my solar panel. Can somebody draw me a simple schematic ( components , wiring, fuses)??? This is my 1st attempt at building something like this.
Thx
Quote from: ncgyver on July 20, 2011, 08:33:10 PM
Ok I ordered a Leece -Neville 110-555jho for my DC gen/ charger. I've read on posts about having to rectify the output going to the Batteries ? And also would like clarification about the charging process, monitoring it and how to make it work with my solar panel. Can somebody draw me a simple schematic ( components , wiring, fuses)??? This is my 1st attempt at building something like this.
Thx
Hi NC,
To get the most out of your system you need to make sure the alt is set up for external regulation, and is not one the self excite/on board regulator types....if it is, it's easy to convert to external reg. with a couple of parts from Leece.
How far from the bats is it to the alternator round trip?, you'll need a couple of bus bars, 1 for ground, and 1 for positive.
The solar panel should have it's own charge controller, that you will hook up to the pos/neg bus bars.
I really think you should look for and buy a book by title "Living on 12 volts" it's a little paperback sold in most marine stores, but any good book store will have it, or be able to order it...think Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Living-Twelve-Volts-Ample-Power/dp/0945415028/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1311218358&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Living-Twelve-Volts-Ample-Power/dp/0945415028/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1311218358&sr=8-1) It'll be the $9.38 you ever spent.
By the way, you won't have to worry about a rectifier...it's on-board the alternator already
Lloyd
Somee links for your continued enjoyment.
The mother of links http://www.google.com/search?q=living+on+12+volts (http://www.google.com/search?q=living+on+12+volts)
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
http://www.henry-davis.com/GMC/Living.PDF
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1984-11-01/Low-Voltage-Living.aspx
Thx Lloyd ! I'm all over that info...
the two ample power books
wiring for 12 volts, and
living with 12 volts
are excellent primers for anyone getting started with DC systems
they can be found on ebay or amazon from time to time for less than 10 bucks each
both should be in one library in my opinion
bob g
I received my 110-555 JHO Alternator today,so I'm ready to build this thing! ANyone recommend pulley size / belt configuration ? ALt will be driven by a 8 hp B&S ...
What speed do you want to run the engine??
If there is already a pulley on the engine, what size is it (diameter)??
The formula for figuring the size of the pulley for the alternator or generator is:
D2 = D1 x N1 divided by N2
D1 - Diameter of pulley on engine
D2 - Diameter of pulley on generator
N1 - RPM of engine
N2 - RPM of generator
Ralph
Hey ncgyver
Commonly available pulleys are going to be a deciding factor otherwise your costs are going to skyrocket. Most common "V" belt pulleys for these truck alternators will be a duel belt 2.75-3.5" OD. This style alternator want to be spun at a minimum of ~4000 RPM to be in its lower fat output range and to have enough fan air flow cooling. So if you were willing to listen to that B & S screaming along at 3600 RPM you would need a ~3.9" engine driving pulley. You will find this size in a taper lock difficult to find, and have to be belt wear retentioned frequently.
So three ways to do this:
1) MaxPower. Go with a ~5" double groove taper lock engine pulley by the 3.5" alternator pulley. Engine speed of 3600 RPM would spin the Alt at ~5124. No Problem - this alt is good for 8000 RPM continuously.
2) Practical-Pragmatic. Same set up but slow the engine speed to 3000 RPM and avoid the screaming-meemy nervous breakdown - Yours! You will get better engine life, belt life and ALt life this way and it should still produce the 6 hp you will need for hot Alt output of ~120 amps (1500 watts of electrical and 1500 watts of heat) at ~4286 RPM.
3) Idealism. Single belt 10.5" engine pulley at 3000 engine RPM driving an Alt 8" single groove pulley at 4000 RPM. Look at lawn mower decks and you will see with bigger pulleys with more surface contact and belt wrap they prove able to do this.
Yes you are going to want an external field control regulator so you can manually keep the Alt turned off until the engine is up to speed and has full lubrication going. Other wise with a discharged battery bank the engine will load stall out at starting up. PITA on a hand cranker.
Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh
OOPS!. I just reread and your B&S is only 5 HP?? 8 hp and I was thinking of an answer on another forum. Go with the 3600 RPM MaxPower set up. Only expect to get 90-100 amps. Still 1100-1200 watts. Then just run longer. Batteries will only accept power in so fast anyhow without damage. Most 12 volt electric forklift chargers are limited to 75 amps max. Once you tire of this engine you can up size, slow down and then get full Alt output to recharge the batteries AND inverter power supply.
My B&S is 8 hp. I had a 5 vert shaft but found a brand new 8hp / horizontal shaft for $60. I think I like option number 3.
Where can I get a "external field control regulator"?
Ah! I see. I connected your name with an 8 hp B&S in your GM 10-12 SI PM alternator topic.
There Mobile Bob recommended a Sterling brand 3 stage external voltage regulator for this Prestolite/LN Alt. On other "Automotive alternator" topic threads there are 2-3 other brands recommended.
I really like those 12 volt links you put up here Mr. Lloyd. Thanks. I will be passing these on.
Regards
SteveU.
What about the internal voltage regulator om the Alt.?
I learned from Bob G if you put a switch on one of the brushes you can turn on the alternator when ever you want.....or off. Not a progamable external regulator but will allow you to get it started and warmed up......KISS...... ;D
Quote from: luv2weld on July 26, 2011, 09:16:09 AM
What speed do you want to run the engine??
If there is already a pulley on the engine, what size is it (diameter)??
The formula for figuring the size of the pulley for the alternator or generator is:
D2 = D1 x N1 divided by N2
D1 - Diameter of pulley on engine
D2 - Diameter of pulley on generator
N1 - RPM of engine
N2 - RPM of generator
Ralph
Hi All,
Here is a little spreed sheet I made to find any one of the missing if three are known.
Lloyd
Thx for the info guys. Nothing inexpensive about a Balmar or Sterling regulator. What do I need to do to the Alt. ? I was thinking about mounting the whole thing on a flatbed steel garden trailer/cart . I still need cables, belts, pulley's and the regulator. The cheapest I found was $280 for a Balmar ARS-5.
I bought one of these on ebay. It's supposed to be fully programmable. I haven't tested it yet but I'm going to build this fall at my OTG property so I gotta get to it soon.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LEECE-NEVILLE-Balmar-VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-MGM-614-AGM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf8227bfaQQitemZ330580524026QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear
See this thread for some more info on it.
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=1878.0
Thanks, Geno
I saw that on ebay. SO I went ahead and bought one.
Hi XYXER. With a car alternator (internally regulated) you generally have 2 terminals. Large for output to battery (direct connect - old school "D"), small for exitation (from ign switch/battery). To unload alternator for warmup or start, place a switch somewhere on the exitation (old school field) wire. If you are worried about overcharging, you could interupt one of the wires to the slip ring brushes and wire in a simple variable reo. Cheers.
i've been doing the same thing only difference is my system is 24v and i use a listdroid and a 24v alternator.
i've tried a reostat for controll but it finely gave out. with a reostat you have to baby sit it. i'm still using the regulator that is built in to the alternator. not really good because.....you will never get a full charge.
you will kill your batt bank after a while. ask me how i know.
i just emailed sterling about why i should buy their product. i'll post the reply when i get it.
the only thing i see different between a sterling and a xantrex [belmar] is, xantrex has a equlize setting.,but sturling has a nice remote that you can buy. extra of course.
i dont need the equalize mode because i have a xantrex 4000 watt inverter that can take care of that.,when i drive my 4000watt granger generator head.
you need to have the option of equalizing every once in a while.
that being said.,sterling offers that remote that gives you a look whats going on. i think is neat.
i would have a hard time deciding which one to buy [in your case].
i'm going to buy the sterling. because it is cheaper and i already have the inverter that will equalize when i need to.
oh also use large size pullys on your engine and on your alternator. don't use any thing smaller than 3inch on that alternator because of slippage and belt ware. put some distance between your engine and alternator.this helps also in belt ware. say 20 to 25 inches would be good. also was stated size the pulleys so you wont be running your engine max rpm's. 3000 or a little slower is good.
hope this will help.
I'm going to start to assemble this thing soon. I Still need the belts and pulleys. I looked on Mcmaster-carr and they have some. Anybody can point me to a source for pulley's???
ncgyver, this should help.
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=1368.0
Henry
ncgyver,
If you are looking for parts we have a parts source on the forum where you can find stuff.
Here it is: http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?board=64.0
Henry
I found some 10" pulleys that were used on Evaporative coolers, they look like they are steel not cast iron. Will these work ?
Steel or iron should be fine for this application. My favorite spot for pulleys etc:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/
Jonathan