I finally finished version 2.0 of my WVO processor and got around to testing it.
Version 1.0 had some issues and I wanted to make a change.
Among the issues were....
1] To big: Version 1 used a 45 gallon drum which took up too much room in my garage.
2] It processed large batches which meant I also needed a big container to pump the cleaned WVO into when done.
(Again, a space issue)
3] In order to heat 30 gallons of WVO (within a reasonable amount of time) I had to run a 1300 watt heater.
(My power supply is a single 120 vac line on a 15 amp breaker)
I could never run the centrifuge pump and the heater at the same time so I would run the heater....run the pump....run the heater...
4] It took 4 hrs of running the system to get only 4 passes through the centrifuge. Not enough contact time.
My idea was to reduce the size of the unit to match the 17 and 20 liter cubies of WVO that I acquire.
(The vessel was made from a 9 gallon air compressor receiver tank.)
Then, each time I get a cubie, I can dump the whole thing into the processor, turn it on, and 1 hr later I have cleaned WVO
With a smaller tank, I can also use a smaller heater (500 watt) which enables me to keep the heat going when the pump is running.
This is important because the blower which is used for removing water vapor also robs heat from the oil. With the new design I was actually able to raise the temperature of the oil while the blower was operating.
By processing a very small batch, I can achieve 35 passes through the centrifuge in 1 hour while blowing air over the hot oil being discharged from the centrifuge. Then drain it into a clean vessel.
The centrifuge must be opened and cleaned between batches, but this is a fast and simple operation.
During the cleanings, I did get a lot of fine abrasive sludge.
Today I did 3 batches in succession (50 liters).
The unit is considerably smaller than version 1.0 and can be wheeled into a corner when not in use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI5-8hFWpSU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI5-8hFWpSU)
veggie
Ha,
Nice going. I never thought of circulation the oil, but why not? It seems to work pretty well and gives you more time dewatering it.
I building a similar processor: Raw filtering, washing, dewatering, centrifuge, settling, degreasing (blanked filter) and finising with a 1micron filter. At this moment I'm still buying it from a professional filterer.
Succes,
Tim
Nice setup.
And clean ,how do you do that cleaning the thing every day.
Don't believe the video guys..... It's all computer graphics.
If it were real, there would be veg oil on the floor somewhere.... ;D
Quote from: bschwartz on May 08, 2011, 06:24:42 AM
Don't believe the video guys..... It's all computer graphics.
If it were real, there would be veg oil on the floor somewhere.... ;D
LOL....funny you should say that. About an hour after I took that video, I spilled a liter on the floor while transferring the clean stuff.
Believe me, I've had my share of messes to clean up :D
veggie
Wow veggie,
I can't believe it. You walk the walk besides talking the talk. And you growed me up a click or two. I can't believe I've put that nasty crap through my biggest and favoritist toy tool.
Very very nice looking intergalactic time travel device your running your juice through. Have you ever considered running some Shell or Chevron diesel through it just to see if they have proper standards? ;D
The centrifuge device looks like one of those units they put on big diesel rigs to help clean the engine oil. Does yours just rely on the pressurized oil going through it to do the cleaning or is it motor driven and I just couldn't see that part of the apparatus?
Casey
Quote from: LowGear on May 08, 2011, 12:33:15 PM
The centrifuge device looks like one of those units they put on big diesel rigs to help clean the engine oil. Does yours just rely on the pressurized oil going through it to do the cleaning or is it motor driven and I just couldn't see that part of the apparatus?
Casey
Thanks Casey,
You are correct, the centrifuge is an automotive unit that uses the pump pressure to rotate the chamber at 6000 rpm.
Speaking of diesel fuel.....I was thinking that I could also use it as a fuel blender.
The unit has a bypass loop which allows me to circulate without the centrifuge.
Once a batch of oil is cleaned, I could open the filler spout, add my 30% diesel and then switch it to circulate for 10 minutes.
Out comes my blended fuel for the Listeroid.
veggie
Hi veggie,
I think it would be fun to do the mixing with the filter turned on. Just as a research project. (Where is that devil smiley face when you need it?)
Really nice stuff. I have one of those spinner contraptions so I'm going to put it into the loop of my modest version of a dewater station. I'm just gonna paint my tank black and set it out in the sun. Thanks for the excellent leadership. Nothing says learning louder than "watch me do this" only without the six pack.
I'm looking for a quick - easy hose disconnect for the top of my dewatering unit so I can pump the crystal clear dry fuel (dream on lad) into storage. Do you think one of those $40 Chinese bio diesel pumps is enough volume/pressure to get the centrifuge spinning at a workable speed? So that's two questions:
1.) quick disconnect?
5.) cheapski Chinese pump?
Casey
Quote from: LowGear on May 08, 2011, 04:53:51 PM
So that's two questions:
1.) quick disconnect?
5.) cheapski Chinese pump?
1] I have good luck with (and still use) "cam locks". The ones with two levers that lock the couplings together.
Generally available at hose shops and agricultural supply stores. Very popular on ag sprayers and irrigation systems.
2] NO..... The "clearwater" bidiesel pumps are only good for circulating the oil around the biodiesel processor at LOW pressure (I use one on my reactor).
They only make around 30PSI (and that's with water). Much less with a viscous liquid.
The centrifuge needs 60 to 90 psi to work and the liquid should be as thin as possible (heat).
good luck,
veggie
Veggie:
You said: " the centrifuge is an automotive unit that uses the pump pressure to rotate the chamber at 6000 rpm."
Could you elaborate on "what" automotive unit you have so neophyte WVO "virgins", like me, (NEVER thought I would use the "v" word when referring to me! <grin>), who are about to get into the WVO polishing/cleaning "business" (personal use only) can have a better understanding of what you are working with, here?
I'd particularly appreciate a make and model that I could google for more info! <grin>
Thanx for your expertise!
Regardz,
Wayne Stayton
Gorgeous job! Please do tell us about your pump, heater and centrifuge.
google dieselcraft for more info on centrifuges for cleaning WVO.
There are other brands, and copies, but that should give you the basics.
Brett, you are correct. It's the smallest model from Dieselcraft.
Below is a rough schematic.
veggie
Gear pumps:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Rotary-Gear-Pump-4KHP5 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Rotary-Gear-Pump-4KHP5)
http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/pumps/brand/oberdorf3.htm (http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/pumps/brand/oberdorf3.htm)
http://www.renownindustries.com/gear_pumps.html (http://www.renownindustries.com/gear_pumps.html)
http://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-250-oberdorfer-bronze-gear-pump.aspx (http://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-250-oberdorfer-bronze-gear-pump.aspx)
http://www.omega.com/pptst/FPUGR100_200.html (http://www.omega.com/pptst/FPUGR100_200.html)
veggie
Gosh! Nice stuff costs more!
How about an oil pump out of a a car or truck? Coupled to a washing machine motor?
Casey
rm /
For my first setup to see if it would work, I used a carbonator pump (used in soda fountain machines) like this one. They work, but over time (hundreds of gallons for me) the procon vane pumps clog with polymerized VO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MC-CANNS-CARBONATOR-PUMP-SYSTEM-/260780489947?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7ba7cdb
The centrifuge I use is this:
http://veg-fuel.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=5&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=39&vmcchk=1&Itemid=39
However I did also make a second setup using a centrifuge like this that seemed to work just as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/60-gph-WVO-Centrifuge-/250761830950?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6291e226
I heard that some Chevy small block gear pumps work really well. (Never tried it).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SMALL-BLOCK-CHEVY-WASTE-OIL-GEAR-PUMP-WVO-SVO-NOREDLINE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255dc392beQQitemZ160486888126QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SMALL-BLOCK-CHEVY-WASTE-OIL-GEAR-PUMP-WVO-SVO-NOREDLINE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255dc392beQQitemZ160486888126QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
veggie
The price ranges are getting into my budgetary allocation range. But I'm still confused. Surprise!
These in-line centrifuges still need a pump to supply the oil?
And bschwartz, you're saying that the $60 pump on Ebay can do that? It has it's own on-board motor?
The Chevy pump is what first came to my mind.
Casey
I can say from experiance that a Retired (Used) big block chevy oil pump can produce in excess of 150psi
with the internal regulator bypassed. But I do not know how many GPM it produced because It did not matter for what I used it for... It did have some leaks (seepage) but that did not matter as I used in a bucket. I set mine up in a 5 gallon bucket with the motor on top. it worked very well! unfortunetly I do not remember what HP motor it was... I'd guess 1/2hp or so.
I do know that if you capped the outlet (Closed the Valve) it would stop the motor dead! (Remember the
bypass valve was blocked)
Rob
Sorry if this is a useless rambling. :-[
Casey,
The one on ebay (carbonator pump) is usually a 1/3 hp electric motor with a procon style vane pump. The pump is detachable and looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PROCON-PUMP-Fully-Refurbished-Warranty-/290558006929?pt=BI_Hot_Beverage_Brewers&hash=item43a69b5691#ht_500wt_950
The centrifuge is powered by the pressurized oil.
The oil enters the centrifuge, and is squirted out (inside the domed cover) of the rotor in opposite directions, causing the rotor to spin.
Different brand, but basically the same
http://www.dieselproducts.com/images/sp_rotor.gif
does this help?
-Brett
Here's a fellow who uses a small block Chevy oil pump on a dieselcraft centrifuge....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlVzpthm3IE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlVzpthm3IE)
veggie
Nope.... Not something I'd consider for a minute.
I manage PLENTY of spills without building a system around a pump that has no seal designed to keep the oil in.
There are plenty of other cheap options including power steering pumps etc.
Well I'm pretty dizzy but I can see a pipe fitting for a screw in water heater element is my next purchase. I'll braze it right there towards the bottom of my tank which is designed for 20 gallon batches. As a 60 year member of Rocky Jones Space Rangers I think a thermostat is absolutely mandatory.
bschwartz's pump looks really nice and did you notice they'll set the bypass to your specs. I'll get a photo of my filter tomorrow for your review and see if I'm barking up the right tree.
Casey
Whatever pump you use, make sure you have a relieve valve in the system which bypasses back to the tank.
All the pumps we have been discussing are positive displacement types and need some sort of pressure relief in case the discharge gets blocked ( forgetting to open a valve ) or the output is higher than the centrifuge can accept.
Some pumps have a built-in RV....which is a nice benefit.
veggie
I have a Spinner II Model 76SE. Photos below. Looks great - I think?
Is this what I need?
http://www.spinnerii.com/files/comm_id_30/Lo76SEservice.pdf (http://www.spinnerii.com/files/comm_id_30/Lo76SEservice.pdf)
The air port on the bottom? I wonder how many CFM this thing uses? So let's see. About 1000 watts for the water heater element. About 400 watts for the pump. About 100 watts for the vent fan. That's 1500 watts or 60 cents an hour in Hawaii. And now 15 Amps - 240 Volts for an air compressor. This thing better have some very, and I mean very, fine snot coming out after a couple of hours.
Comments?
Casey
Per the PDF document from your centrifuge....:
Air pressure can vary from 35 to 125 psig. No regulators, vales or control devices are required. The Spinner II
control automatically shuts off the air supply when the
engine stops. 0.02 SCFM air consumption is almost too
small to measure
Yes, the stuff coming out after a few hours of running will be too fine to feel the texture. It will remove particles down below 1 micron.
Assuming you run yours as long as I run mine for a 45 gallon batch (24 hours), which I DOUBT you will.
I like overkill.... $0.60 per hour x 24 = $14.40. This is if your heater NEVER turned off which it will once it gets to temperature. It will cycle on and off to maintain your target (mine is set to ~190F).
$14.40 for 45 gallons of fuel works out to $0.32 per gallon. Still not bad even if you pay through the nose for electricity.
Alright guys this is a good deal...continuous motor and oberdorfer pump...secret, make offer of $225 is yours....5 left
http://cgi.ebay.com/Oberdorfer-Day-Tank-Pump-E-CA-Model-SA-01684-/350449737487?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item51986e9f0f
That IS a good price, and that is EXACTLY the type of pump arrangement to use!!!
Good find Shipo!!
Nice little pumps, and a very good price.
Beware....these are noisy little buggers. At first you will thing something is broken.
veggie
Yikes veggie,
You just scared me. I've got a stinker about noise on the farm. Noise like a small diesel tractor idling or like a compressor running continuously?
I've contacted a couple of the links for better information.
It sounds like a oil filter ahead of the pump would also be wise. How well does stuff suck through automobile filters rather than being pushed as intended?
Those screw in water heater elements. Are they 1.25" NPT?
Casey
Like an air compressor running continuous.
I put my ear protection on when I'm working beside my unit.
Its the metal gears.
Veggi
Casey, I pour my oil through a restaurant cone filter as it goes into my filtering barrel. That takes out any of the big chunks that would cause any issues with the centrifuge, or pump. I don't think these things are THAT loud, more of a whirring noise. You hear the electric pump, and the whir or whine of the pump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62RSpNttv6Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdwQIs0OsWY
Nice videos. Thanks.
And they are noisy - really noisy if they're like the second one. The fellow was talking pretty loud over the noise on the first one as well. (Did you catch yourself rooting for the chamber coming off?)
I just spoke to Bill at McLendon Hardware in Renton, WA. Possibly the best hardware store for DIYs in the states and the water heater elements use a one inch pipe thread.
I'm waiting on a reply from the Ebay vender that has the used motor-pump units.
I use a 100 micron filter for my WVO but the specs call for 45 microns on the Spinner II centrifuge.
Stay tuned for this step by step distance learning seminar.
Thank you all, really.
Casey
Pump Alert on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290563799872&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290563799872&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
You think the 1/4 HP motor is too wimpy?
Nice price.
The shipping on the McCann unit put it in the stratosphere.
Casey
Yes Casey, the 1/4 hp is too wimpy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBONATOR-MOUNT-PUMP-1-3-HP-115-VOLT-/360362743283?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item53e74b15f3
This is pricey, but it is a more powerful motor, and the MUCH preferred gear pump.
Brett,
That pump only puts out 1.1 gpm at 100 psi.
I think it's too small for Casey's big centrifuge ?
veggie
(http://photos.imageevent.com/studio413/intheyard09/large/MVC-016F.JPG)
I paid $129.00 for this drum pump new, which I DYI'd for my on-board fuel polishing pump.
I run Dino-D, so the 13 gpm rating is based on RUG, I'm guessing I get about 10 gpm with Dino-D. It's a 120 volt gear pump, UL listed blow up proof with RUG.
I polish my fuel tanks once a month, and run each tank for an 1hr. I installed it in 2003, it runs cool, even after 1 hr, I'll bet the rotor temp doesn't exceed 80 F, the pump runs at about the temp of the fuel source.
I built the system for about $500.00, the commercial market systems at the time were running over 3K, at the time of build.
Lloyd
Nice system.
Wow
Veggie,
You are absolutely correct (I know you hate hearing that). I didn't realize he had the 2+ gallon per minute centrifuge. I'd go back to the pump/motor combination that shipo posted earlier. At ~$225, it is a bargain that I'd grab, as the motor should be large enough (1/2 hp would be better) and the 4GPM pump is sized right. The size motor you need, and pump specs are of course dependent upon the temp of your WVO of course.
Aloha Gentlemen,
I am going to phone the local beverage companies this week and see what I can come up with. I've got a couple of eSnipe bids waiting in the shadows.
Some guys just have nicer stuff than I do. I will be mounting my Spinner 76 on the drying station. I have picked up a Ford filter mount to pre-strain the material prior to moving it through the pump (any ideas where I could find the specs on the different engine filters for Ford?). Chances are that I'll use a 1/3 HP motor as the 1/2 HP units are kinda rare. I have a procon pump spotted that has big numbers and 1/2" NPT ports.
The next question:
Will I hurt anything by running bio-diesel through this system part of the time and then WVO the other part? My understanding is that bio-diesel just doesn't have to be as pretty prior to processing as does WVO before we stick into our fuel tanks.
Casey
Casey, for cheap, easy to find pre-filtration, whole house water filters work well.
The cartridges are readily available with 5 micron (nominal), which will definitely remove anything that would cause the centrifuge/pump to have issues.
Something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Biodiesel-Wvo-Svo-Whole-House-Water-Filter-Sediment-/360366174337?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item53e77f7081#ht_500wt_716
with these.
http://cgi.ebay.com/7-Sediment-Water-Filter-Whole-House-Reverse-Osmosis-/170497239885?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item27b26d6b4d#ht_1733wt_754
Hi Brett,
Thanks. These water filters are what I use coming out of my WVO storage containers and RO system. 70 degree oil moves pretty darn slow through the 10 micron units.
I got this really neato cast aluminum housing that takes Ford cartridges. It came with braided half inch lines as well. How could I say not to a double header like that. And 1/2 inch NPT adapters. Almost a triple. Does anyone have any idea what Ford filters get down to?
This quest of perfect oil kind of overtook me. Settling back into pretty good is a standard that has served me well. I wish I had the finesse to do work at some of the other members level but I just don't. In case you didn't know I'm a great advocate of Dr. Harold Callahan. "A man has to know his limitations!"
Thanks to you all. I'll keep you updated but right now I have to go settle up with the fellow digging my generator pit. Pictures? A thread without pictures is like Thai food with no stars.
Casey
Wow!
Capthaddy on Ebay really came through for me. He sold me the GE 1/3 HP pump and a Procon pump WITH 1/2 inch ports. They'll really match the lines on the Ford oil filter block nicely.
And a couple of photos of the future generator pit. Sorry about no photos of the back hoe with the ram doing it's thing in whats called blue rock here in the islands. How do you like that deep rich top soil? It's 11' by 14'.
I'll be back on this filter project in July. And you can be sure I'll be referring to back to veggie's YouTube video in the first posting of this thread. Is that nice work or what. Mine will be a bit more Rube Goldberg with a little KISS (I hope).
Casey
Yep....that looks like an ideal pump for the job.
Keep us posted of your progress.
veggie
An oil filter for a '74 IH Scout II will fit a Ford adapter. They are a bigger can with more filter area for commercial applications. The cost more too.
I'm hoping for something that is more like a sediment filter for the pump as the centrifuge will be doing the real filtering.
Casey