Hi everyone,
Some of you may be following my saga of Listeroid big end failure with mangled crankshaft, etc.
On a lighter note, a few days ago I put up a new website documenting our whole experience with building an off-grid home and everything that goes along with it, including power system, gravity water system, suspension bridges, Listeroids, thermal storage, masonry heaters, earthtube cooling, microwave link high speed internet, etc. Enjoy:
http://www.docbryner.com/mossy_hollow
Marcus
all i can say is wow!
and ... well... wow!
very nice, and it should bring you and your family many years of happy memories.
bob g
ps. i would happily live in the powerhouse!
:)
Marcus,
The project is coming along beautifully!
I'm envious as that has been my dream for a very long time.
Hat's off to you and the wife.
Best,
Steve
How do I get a pad lock like that one on the powerhouse?
very nice!!!!
Ha. that's an easy one. A Renaissance Faire website, medieval lock replica, $18
Hi Marcus
I just finished looking through your photo journey. Wonderful job you both have done with this. I especially enjoyed the house, garden and trail/bridge building pictures. Your mass hearth stove build pictures were fantastic! She got her oven too! Thanks for sharing.
Bet you would say now your most single indispensable piece of equipment would be your Kubota tractor with attachments eh?
Now with a PTO gen head IT could be your HD generator back up. Not something you would want to run all of the time of course (fuel and unnecessary expensive equipment wear), but always there and you own it.
www.northerntool.com
Makes me wonder what you'll gonna' do with all of that freed up brainpower you both been using the past four years once done and moved in. World Peace? or cure cancer?
Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh
Marcus,
What an absolutely beautiful setting and you have surely worked that backside off!
I am proud that there are folks out there with the resources which allow them to be this serious about creating not just a place to live but a showcase for determination.
How ever you made enough money to sink into this project the job must pay very well. I'm not asking what you bring home! Not my business!
I live in a house with a smaller footprint than your outbuilding!
R
RogerAS: Well, I have a great job, but I'm not that flush right now... Have lots of loans. The house itself has me quite extended financially because the bank had a hard time giving me *any* loan on an off-grid house and 300+ acres of land, but eventually got a bank loan to cover 2/3. Had to do creative manipulation of finances, beg money from family, and go directly to bank pres and VP (who I know from Rotary Club). Both of them have been out to the project in the past few months and thought it was cool. Getting it finished is a challenge. It's not difficult to buy big chunks of land: we bought our land from the loggers directly; they hold the loan. I could have bought 10 acres down near the Rogue or Applegate River for the same price. Other projects, like the powerhouse, thermal storage tank, earthtubes, Listeroid, etc. I have worked on myself on weekends and evenings whenever there's a free moment. I can't just throw money at contractors for those projects; I just get less sleep.
e.g. I set the well pump myself, 320 ft deep, in November 2007 in the evening by generator and car lights working up to 10 pm. My wife helped by securing the wires, screwing on the next pipe lengths, etc., while our baby slept in the carseat. Saved $1000.
True, we have a lot of ideas swirling around, but I made the website to document how we did it in case anyone else wanted to try one or more of the projects. To me it's a big adventure! Other people have other hobbies; you may find me routing out a trail sign late at night, or gluing PVC pipe together in a trench.
Hey SteveU! Yes, a PTO gen head is a good idea. Maybe when the little portable generator dies.
Marcus
Oh, hey, slowspeed: here's the link for the old lock on the powerhouse door. It took a little while to find again. The price is great!
http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/c-227-dungeon-locks.aspx
I was under the mistaken impression that people came in two categories, thinkers, and do-ers. I am now corrected.
Marcus, you are both. Other than that , I am at a loss for words.
Ron
Marcus,
Well, good for you. It never hurts to have friends in high places!
Don't work yourself into an early grave.
I used to live in the Eugene area, and my youngest child lives there now. I love the summers, but I like to see the sun a few times through winter! ;)
My wife and I are too old to go very deeply into debt, so we gnaw away at our place little by little. I've never even had dreams about a mansion/estate like you're building.
Be careful. I broke a wrist that held us back from getting things the way we want. We haven't caught up and that's been about 5 years ago. Been there done that middle of the night stuff, shudder.
R
Quotea mansion/estate like you're building
Never liked the term mansion. Too many haughty, evil, money-grubbing images. The house is 2700 sq ft. It does have a lot of details, though, I'll admit. ;)
In this age, debt is a bad thing. Good philosophy to stay out of debt. :)
Southern Oregon has a totally different climate than Eugene -- much dryer and sunnier!
Man, everytime I write something on this forum I have to go back and edit a few times... BTW, I forgot to mention that the website is a work in progress. For instance, in the house pages, I haven't told about how we salvaged old gym bleachers and replaned them for our wood floor in the whole downstairs. Got them off Craigslist for about 1/4 the cost of new wood floor. (!!!!) So many cool things to talk about. Come down/up and visit sometime any of you.
Marcus,
Can I just add my congratulations on an awesome (and I don't use that word lightly) project of mammoth proportions. You're doing almost exactly what I plan to do - except I won't be on quite such a big piece of land (about 1/10th the size will suit me fine), and I probably won't go for quite such a big house (I'd rather have a massive barn for all my toys ;D).
With all those acres, are you planning to grow your own wood & vegetable oil? I reckon you could become totally independent of Big Oil with that much ground... hell, grow a few acres of cash crop, and you shouldn't ever need a "real" job again either! Well... once you've paid the loans off at least.
Just awesome. You are moving along much faster than I am - still siting the house and septic location and listeroid isn't bolted down yet. We too are planning a Masonry Stove - did you use plans, or wing it ??
Mike
Mike,
We used a Heatkit core. Look at: www.heatkit.com
OK priced masonry heater core and then we had a local mason use rocks we collected around the land for the facing. That's another part of the website that doesn't have documentation yet. :)
Another co. we looked at was: www.tempcast.com
I was eagerly following your project on Facebook, but don't you live quite aways from your land and you're only there occasionally? You also have a cool pond and lots of hydropower potential if memory serves correctly.
In fact aren't you supposed be well on your way there? ;)
What a wonderful adventure and work of character. Congratulations.
Casey
Yeah, about 500 mi away, so only there 1 weekend a month. Added a concrete spillway to the pond, which gives us another 1/2 acre foot of water storage. I got the holes marked for the listeroid hold downs, and I'll finish drilling and epoxy the bolts in over Thanksgiving (I hope) .
Wife has taken on the task of house layout & design, and I get to come up with a way to build it. Will look into the timber kit like you got. And thanks for the heater info too.
Good luck getting the listeroid lubed up and running again. Don't the outback inverters have battery chargers in them, that you can power from the ST head ?
Outstanding Marcus and congrats on making your dream come true!
Recall our previous discussion:
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=768.msg10571#msg10571
You are way ahead of us. We are still only in the homestead designing phase and I am using Chief Architect CAD to create the construction drawings (some renderings of current plan attached, 1776 SF house plus 400 SF in guest garage/shop). We did get our 45 GPM well hooked up to our single wide this past summer, so that sort of felt like some progress. We had to have potable water trucked in previously.
For those interested in designing/DIY masonry heaters, I highly recommend "Masonry Heaters", Ken Matesz, CR 2010.
Bob B.
Hi Bob B.
Yes, I remember that conversation. I was wondering what became of your project. Very nice drawing w/ Chief Architect. I like the guesthouse in the garage. Gives more privacy. You have a great well, and you're right on the river IIRC.
Quote from: mbryner on November 19, 2010, 11:12:30 PM
Hi Bob B.
Yes, I remember that conversation. I was wondering what became of your project. Very nice drawing w/ Chief Architect. I like the guesthouse in the garage. Gives more privacy. You have a great well, and you're right on the river IIRC.
Hi Marcus,
Yes, the existing single wide and future house will be 20' above Evans Creek (which will also provide the hydro power). Our irrigation rights and hydro ram are on another creek that's on our property. I attached a security camera photo taken from the existing single wide that was just emailed to me yesterday as described the "internet in sticks" thread. I also attached a photo I took this summer after we cleared some brush from the creek areas. We coordinated with Jackson Soil and Water Conservation District (JSWCD) and Department of Fish & Wildlife to develop/approve a riparian landscape and maintenance plan. BTW, these folks were great to work with. In addition to providing excellent riparian plant and nomow pasture info, they also greased our hydro power approval skids.
We had the well drilled by the seller with 10 GPM purchase contingency. It actually logged 260 feet deep, hitting water at 220', which produced a 36' SWL and 45 GPM. Unfortunately, the well is 300 feet from the pump house and the pump house is another 200 feet from the homesite. So had to dig a 500' long 3' deep trench, and bed a lot of pipe and wire. I had to dynamite a few boulders along the way too. The other thing we had to address was that the well tested high for arsenic, which is pretty common in our area if you are fortunate to even find water. So I had to design, build, and install a filtratrion system to take care of that issue.
The house construction is on hold pending my retirement to avoid having two houses 500 miles apart. I was hoping to build the garage questhouse next summer, but that is contingent on being able to take 3 months off from work...and you may have read that we (Boeing) are continuing to have problems with our new airplane developments...so I am not very optimistic that I will be able to take this time off :'(
Bob
Marcus, you have a beautiful place and the details of the construction are just outstanding. My hat is off to you!
I got my lock like yours, of all places, in an antique/junk shop in Romona CA, years ago. I also have an older one, it came from Germany with my family in 1843 when they moved to the US. It locked the trunk that had all their possessions in it.
sailawayrb, love those pics of Evans Creek!
NevadaBlue, very cool lock. Do you use the one from 1843 for anything?
My project is so similar!
2600SF house ( SIPS with exposed truss system, post and beam ) Designed by me in Chief Architect with input from wife
100 acres in the woods off grid
320ft well pumped 400/100ft uphill to 2600g tank for gravity feed
Harris hydro on 20-120gpm creek at 20psi ( not fully working yet )
800W PV, Lister SR2 and Metro 6/1, Xantrex inverters, 8 golf cart batteries
It's been a challenge and continues to be, like Marcus I have a good job but ain't rich and this took every penny and then some and I do as much as I can myself.
Right now snowed in with 4ft of snow, communications were out Sat and Sun, this morning I go out and the chimney is bent almost off so no fire and it's supposed to be 14F tonight.
Projects projects projects, everything is $500 and a weekend!
Jedon, I just spent about 1/2 hour looking at your picasa picture pages. It's deja vu.... Beautiful place you have.
Thanks!
I really should upload some new pics showing progress, I've just been taking pictures with my Android phone and posting them to my Facebook, too easy.
Quote from: mbryner on November 23, 2010, 02:01:17 AM
... NevadaBlue, very cool lock. Do you use the one from 1843 for anything?
Right now it is sitting in my dresser drawer waiting for the proper spot. Maybe a reloading cabinet or something. :)
Marcus,
That is a wonderful (and challenging) project that you have built.
A beautiful home and a powerhouse to be envied.
Congratulations on a job well done.
In your description of the engine, you noted the speed was 480 rpm. Are you still running at that speed or did you decide to increase it to take advantage of the ST head capabilities? Your sheaves look like they are size for 650 rpm operation.
veggie
Hi Veggie,
When I'm in battery charging mode, I run at 450-500 rpm which drops the voltage to around 80. That goes through a bridge rectifier, then solar charge controller. The slower sound is delightful and it charges efficiently (at a significant loss of HP/KW though).
By removing a governor spring insert and flipping a breaker switch, I go back to 240 V AC mode at 650 rpm when necessary.
Marcus
Quote from: sailawayrb on November 19, 2010, 07:26:17 PM
I am using Chief Architect CAD to create the construction drawings (some early renderings attached).
Quote from: Jedon on November 23, 2010, 05:49:27 PM
My project is so similar!
2600SF house ( SIPS with exposed truss system, post and beam ) Designed by me in Chief Architect with input from wife
Hope this isn't a Hijack....but which version of Chief Architect are you guys using? Will Lite do it or does one need the professional? I use cad every day but not the Architectural type. I played with an old version of something on 5-1/4 inch disks, it was a bit clunky....but that was some time ago... ;D
Quote from: XYZER on December 04, 2010, 11:28:55 AM
Hope this isn't a Hijack....but which version of Chief Architect are you guys using? Will Lite do it or does one need the professional? I use cad every day but not the Architectural type. I played with an old version of something on 5-1/4 inch disks, it was a bit clunky....but that was some time ago... ;D
I happen to be using Chief Architect Premier X3. However, Lite will do nicely too. Both will allow you to easily design a house, play with it in 3D, and ultimately create construction drawings and materials list. If you have not already, watch the video tour that's on their website:
http://www.chiefarchitect.com/
Many of the cheaper house design tools only do floor plans and don't have the capability to do construction drawings.
Marcus that is just awesome. At one time that was my dream but as everything in life goes things change. I have been researching shipping container structures. There is a lot to be said for them. Very strong and can be super insulated covering inside walls. As far as outside it could go either way. If you leave outside alone not much could damage it. I am just in the begining stages. My house I have now is paid for and I am to the age I dont want a big house payment again. I still like a lot of you other ideas which I always thought should work and it seem you have proven it. Good luck. Mike DD
I'll Second that. Marcus, What you have done, and continue to do is at minimum Awesome!
I am very Impressed! Keep up the good work!
Rob
Again, thanks for the nice comments, guys.
DrDeath, I, too, looked at shipping container structures. Not for the house, but for structural inside the barn, or for a cellar, or for lots of other ideas.
Rumor has it that there are underground dwellings using shipping containers around here. I've heard someone used a few in a U-shaped configuration underground, with just the ends sticking out of the hillside. I thought that would be cool, but when I did research too many engineers say that that is too dangerous. They're built to be strong at the corners for stacking but the weight of all the dirt on the sides and bottom would collapse it too easily.
I have a 40 ft container. It has served well. It was the very first structure I put out here. We could fold down the tractor ROPS and extend the backhoe and it would fit cozy inside. In the back I put heavy duty shelving from Costco along the sides.
The biggest problem was condensation on the inside. In wintertime it drips continuously. About a year ago, I used a torch to cut holes in the top and sides and installed vents. The condensation is much improved but not eliminated.
Marcus
I finally got two 20 foot containers here. They will be the north and south walls of a new barn.
I wouldn't be afraid to bury a container WITH proper reinforcement. The walls and roof are corrugated, that is big ribs. Adding proper rebar reinforcement and taking advantage of those ribs, then pouring a concrete cap and walls would make a great bunker. The container itself is such a wonderful weatherproof box, the concrete and burial would make them a really fine underground space.
I'm building a regular concrete block 'fruit shelter', no way to move a container into the hole I have. :D
http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac09.htm
I designed our house with Chief Architect as well, v9. I then gave the files to a drafter who ported them over to AutoCAD and made the final plans.
Quote from: Jedon on January 19, 2011, 10:58:17 AM
I designed our house with Chief Architect as well, v9. I then gave the files to a drafter who ported them over to AutoCAD and made the final plans.
Jedon, did you end up building your house yourself too? If so, did you also get an OR contractors license and did you find the materials savings to be worthwhile? I am taking my exam next month in Medford. I figure if nothing else, it will allow for better negotiating and more binding contracts for some of the labor intensive elements I may subcontract out, like the hydronic foundation/slab concrete work.
Bob B.
BobB
and anyone else that is contemplating being their own general contractor
don't automatically dismiss wholesale distribution of materials, yes they are supposed to only sell to licensed contractors, but
if you go 50 miles away from your place of construction and assure them that you will never tell where you got the materials, often
times they will give you wholesale prices on all sorts of stuff.
i learned this when it came to replacing 10 roman columns on a late queen anne victorian home i resurrected back in the early 90's
the best price i could get locally was 400 bucks each, i went 58 miles to the manufacture, plead my case, and they sold me all 10 for under 200 bucks each, provided i never told anyone where they came from.
as tough as the building industry is right now and will continue to be for the next few years, there is no reason to pay retail for anything
where there is a wholesale or manufacture located within reasonable distance.
at worst you might get a business license and a sales tax number, both of which cost pennies in the scheme of things, then when you go to the wholesale house you have what they will ask for 99% of the time, just be sure and tell them to charge you sales tax because the stuff is going to be used for personal consumption,,, this makes for clean and honest tax reporting. which makes life easy.
fwiw, i bought about 100k dollars worth of materials for just a bit over 40k dollars for that house.
everything from plywood, shingles, torchdown, trusses, columns, 24carat gold plated chandeliers, leaded glass double entry doors w/prehung and hardware, plumbing and wireing supplies,, concrete and blocks, and mountains of #1 clear cedar.
bob g
I acted as Owner/Builder for which you do not need a license and I was able to get contractor prices on everything just by asking.
I subbed out the work to various people but had one guy do most of the work up to rough in ( besides the foundation ).
Check out http://ownerbuilderbook.com for more info on acting as your own general contractor.
One thing I learned, have good contracts with everybody and get everything in writing and crack the whip on subs.
I'm in California not Oregon, not sure about the laws up there.
I'm sure the savings of doing so much myself was huge, not using an architect saved me a lot etc.
Bob G.,
Agreed and exactly right. One can certainly negotiate for practically everything and practically everywhere, and it often takes very little documentation (often just a business card is sufficient) to buy wholesale. For this project, if I can't get what I need within about 30 miles, I will have to go much further out than 50 miles. The owner of Medford Truss, an ex-aerospace engineer, highly recommended getting GC license although he said he would be happy to work something out in any event. The main advantage I see in having the license is having CCB and OAH to assist with addressing any subcontract disputes. As you say, it is so easy and cheap to obtain, there little down side in doing it.
Bob B.
Good to hear Jedon and thanks for the link and your experience feedback :)
The last house I did myself as Owner/Builder saved me at least 70% of what it would have been otherwise. Getting the plumbing and electrical bought off took longer than it should because the WA King County inspectors seemed to drag their butts when it comes to working with Owner/Builders. OR has some regulations that apparently affect your resale ability if you go Owner/Builder that I don't fully understand but which also convinced me to just get the license.
Bob
I sure wish I'd done what sailawayrb is doing.
Quote from: mbryner on January 22, 2011, 01:21:42 PM
I sure wish I'd done what sailawayrb is doing.
Hi Marcus...please elaborate more when you have a chance?
Thanks,
Bob B.
Well, you know we just moved into our new house. Our contractor gave us a estimate which is what the house loan from the bank was based on. Now at the end of the project, our contractor is so far over budget it's unbelievable. The portion of the whole project that was his was $xxx K, which included the foundation, subfloor, interior framing, painting, finish work, electrical, plumbing, etc. etc. Stonemill, the log home company, supplied the logs and set up the watertight house shell after the logs and supplied the Kolbe & Kolbe windows for $160k for the 2600 sq ft house. Stonemill, the chinking company, and the foundation/block wall subcontractors came in at or under budget. All the parts of the house that I did myself came in at a small portion of the estimate. For instance, the wood floor, deck railing system, and cedar deck decking were all way under budget. Emily (my wife) got all the plumbing fixtures and light fixtures, door hardware, etc. from the internet at great prices, again at under budget. I did all the research on the wireless lighting system, researched and bought the on demand water heater and all it's required parts and vents, designed parts of the plumbing system including the grey water system, etc. I even dug some of the trenches w/ my backhoe. My contractor and most of his subs came it at 2x, yes 2X !!!, over budget. The contractor and subs say I did a lot of things that weren't in the plans, like elaborate tile in the kitchen and bathroom and extra deck, but we didn't add $250k worth of extra stuff. The contractor would say "this is the way I would do this and it will only cost a little bit more" and I believed it. (Of course, I wouldn't have been able to get more money from the bank anyway because of the whole large acreage and off-grid thing.)
My point is, I did a lot of the design work, research, planning, and some of the actual labor myself -- the same thing I'm paying a contractor to do. As far as I'm concerned, his job is to coordinate the subs, negotiate w/ them to keep me within budget, and keep other material and labor within budget. Why else does he get 10% contractors fee? Now I have a dream house I've struggled to get into, and will struggle to pay for, built on our dream land. I've had to borrow a heck of a lot from family. If you can do the owner/builder thing, that's definitely the way to go. At least don't ever get into a "cost plus" contract. It can just eat you alive without any recourse. If any of you have experience as contractors, builders, owner/builders, I'm all ears. I just don't understand how you can tell someone you can build them something for one price, and then charge them double that through the whole project down to the very end. My contractor (and his wife who handles the financial side) were our friends until just a few weeks ago. No open house for them either, now. Some people have said that it's because of the MD after my name. Can you tell yet that we're pissed? Build it yourself if you can. If you can't build it yourself be your own contractor and hire your subs at a bid, not hourly rate.
Marcus
Wow, that is truly a frustrating and sad saga indeed. >:(
One doesn't often hear people use "good" and "contractor" in same sentence, but your experience sounds about as bad as one as ever I have heard. Thank you for sharing and for the good suggestions on things one might do to mitigate some of the risk.
I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it. It is practically impossible to do as much on your own as one would prefer especially when you have a wife, young children, and an important/intensive full-time career like you have. Sometimes in life you just have to "do your best" given your priorities, capture the "lessons learned" from your experiences, not dwell on past history or things you can't control, and just keep moving forward in a positive way...which I am certain you have done and will continue to do. :)
Bob B.
Quote from: mbryner on January 23, 2011, 11:58:21 AM
Well, you know we just moved into our new house. Our contractor gave us a estimate which is what the house loan from the bank was based on.....
YEOWWW !!
I functioned as the general during my house building project. Also did a lot of the subcontractor jobs my self too. Fortunately, due to the nature of my business I was able to build the house during the day and work at night. I'm real glad the house is done! Unfortunately due to the economy the home is probably worth just under the $ spent on it.
Generally, you can get a one-hour consultation with an attorney who specializes in construction law for around $300. Why not bring a copy of your contract with this contractor and get an opinion on your options? Then, when you know what the probabilities are of a successful outcome on your various options, you are in a better position to discuss his fees. From what I've seen, general contractors frequently use the same subcontractors. One would have to wonder if there are not kickbacks from these cost overruns. Given the large disparity of costs between your selection of subcontractors and his selections, I wonder if your general contractor has written records of competitive bids? In other words, did he even take the time to bid with anyone else or just call up "Buba" his buddy to do the work at any price so long as he gets his kickback. My heart goes out to you getting screwed like this.
Hey Marcus,
I just looked over your website and have to say that you surely have a beautiful place. It is obvious that you have put years of forethought into your design. Speaking as a do-it-yourselfer and former small-time building contractor, I am impressed by the amount of work that you did yourselves.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your contractor, and thanks for sharing it with us. I'm guessing that due to the remote location, your choices were limited. There is nothing that will make a GC happier than a cost-plus job of your scale. He gets to keep his favorite subs busy, there is no pressure to get it done quickly, and the profit is guaranteed.
Anyway, I'm sure that the finished product will give you a lifetime of pleasure. And as my friend tells me, "It's only money, you can always make some more!"
Tom
QuoteGenerally, you can get a one-hour consultation with an attorney who specializes in construction law for around $300.
Yes, we've thought of that. I still "owe" $26k from their "final" bill, which I just didn't pay yet.
The only way I got any money from the bank for an off-grid home on 320 acres was to talk directly to the bank VP. The national and even regional banks wouldn't give our project a second glance. I got to be friends w/ the local bank VP through Rotary Club. He and the bank pres. came out to the project during construction and were quite impressed. They are the ones who are suggesting I get an attorney involved. (The bank VP is an attorney but he won't say much of course.) They have been very good to me, even extending me a $150k line of credit after the construction loan money ran out.
Quote"It's only money, you can always make some more!"
Very true.
We've tried all along to take the higher road and do the Christian thing.
its time to play some hardball with your contractor,
i would set him down and make him justify every line item, after which i would explain to him what i would be
willing to give hi of the remaining twenty whatever thousand left oweing
in no uncertain terms i would explain to him that i would rather pay an atty twenty whatever thousand bucks to
cut his balls off than give him any more money, and if he didn't accept my final offer then that is exactly what i will do.
before you do this, go to the county courthouse and see what liens have been placed on the property, for all you know
there may be liens placed by unpaid sub contractors, material suppliers and god knows what!
your best bet, "before" you pay him any more, and before you meet with him is to check for liens, and then go see an atty
for a consultation, it might cost you a couple hundred bucks to have an atty take a look at what is going one, but my bet is it
would be the best money you have spent so far.
it pains me to say this, but i bet there are liens that are placed on the property that you aren't aware of, and if they are from unpaid
sub contractors that the GC was responsible for paying, or materiials that he was to pay for...guess what? if you pay him he leaves
you on the hook to try and recover and make him pay the others so you can get the liens released.
this is business and it is ugly, ugly, ugly given the state of our economy
please don't pay this guy another dime before you have a lien search done, and before you get counsel.
on the up side it is a gorgeous place you have there.
bob g
Wow this is so close to my experience, my numbers are all lower but exact same kind of thing.
We had to get a hard money loan which we now still have since the contractor was months behind schedule we lost our one chance to get a regular loan.
Now we are stuck with credit cards, unpaid subs, an interest only construction loan and a not quite finished house.
Oh well it is beautiful and an adventure, like was said, is just money and the pain will fade with the years. ( I hope!! )
After studying OR construction lien law for several hours last night, here's a summary what I learned:
1. Contractor must provide "Information Notice About Construction Liens" written notice to owner on
or before any contract is signed.
2. Subcontractor(s) must provide "Notice of Right to Lien" written notice to owner within 8 business days
after starting labor.
3. If 1) and 2) are NOT accomplished or if contractor and subcontractor(s) were not licensed during the entire project, they will have very difficult time enforcing any future Lien action.
4. If 1) and 2) are accomplished, the owner can request statement of the contractual basis and charges incurred. If contractor/subcontractor(s) don't respond within 15 business days, they may lose the right to claim any attorney fees/cost associated in any future lawsuit to foreclose on the Lien.
Owners can further mitigate their Lien risk by issuing checks that are jointly payable to contractor AND subcontractor(s). Owners should also ask every subcontractor(s) that provided a "Notice of Right to Lien" to provide a signed "Lien Waiver or Release" BEFORE making ANY payments to the contractor.
5. A Lien must be recorded by contractor or subcontractor(s) within 75 days of the last day labor was provided.
6. Within 20 days after a Lien is recorded, contractor or subcontractor(s) must provide "Claim of Lien" written notice to owner. The owner can request statement of the contractual basis and charges incurred. If contractor/subcontractor(s) don't respond within 5 calendar days, they may lose the right to claim any attorney fees/cost associated in any future lawsuit to foreclose on the Lien.
7. Within 120 days after filing a Lien, contractor or subcontractor(s) must initiate a Foreclosure Lawsuit or the Lien becomes invalid.
8. Contractor or subcontractor(s) must provide "Notice of Intent to Foreclose" written notice to owner and mortgagees no later than 10 days before beginning foreclosure action.
I hope this helps someone and perhaps fosters better understanding of Lien Law. Again, this only applies to OR and Lien law varies significantly by state. I am also NOT an attorney so one should definitely consult with an attorney for best advice on this subject.
Bob B.
it looks like oregon has passed some laws protecting consumers against goofball contractors
this was not always the case around here!
bet you can breathe easier knowing the rules of the game before hand
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on January 27, 2011, 11:50:17 PM
it looks like oregon has passed some laws protecting consumers against goofball contractors
this was not always the case around here!
bet you can breathe easier knowing the rules of the game before hand
bob g
Precisely...one always needs to fully understand "the rules" so one may use them to one's full advantage and break them as required knowing the full consequences...
Bob B.
Good luck, our contractor broke all the rules but the law is by far on their side. The law doesn't stop them from filing a lawsuit to enforce their bogus liens where they didn't follow the rules and the judges seem to assume that owners are deadbeats who are ripping off contractors. Don't expect help from the state contractors board either. Just my bitter experience, your luck may vary.
i remember when i took on the ground to sky rehab of the victorian monster back in the early 90's
the only bank in the state (security pacific, which got bought out by sea first which was a horrible problem) had a special
department for rehab loans on homes of historic interest
the rep was a great source of info, mostly in matters of contract law and helped me avoid what might have turned out to be disasters
i learned early on, find a real estate atty, and have him look over all documents
i found one that would look over anything for a flat fee ranging from 50-150 bucks and make the needed changes to keep me protected
i might have spent 500 bucks total with him, and it was the best money i ever spent.
between the two guys (atty and banker) i learned all the ways contractors can screw you up, sometimes without meaning to.
sometimes they can just get into financial trouble on another job, not pay a supplier and the supplier will put liens on every project
that contractor is associated with,, and you often won't know about those until it is time to close the deal or apply for conventional financing.
its best to keep a close i on everything, from knowing who the suppliers are, who the subs are, and checking periodically with everyone to see that everyone is paying their bills.
i had one general contractor that i had advanced 2/3rd the money to reroof the place, only to find his subs were all guys from the rescue mission, and two of which had never been paid anything and had not eaten in 3 days! these are guys working 75ft above the street level
on a 12/12 pitch roof, resheeting in the rain without safety harnesses of any kind!
yes i fired the general contractor on the spot, he told me he would sue, i told him to go ahead i would love to eat his lunch in court. i then paid off his rescue mission help in cash on the spot so they could go get something to eat.
hired another pair of contractors, had to fire them too, then another that though he knew better than me on what i wanted done, fired him too
and finally the 4th contractor got the job done.. luckily no material liens because i had bought and paid for all the materials.
i still get nauseated from the memories of one of those first guys visibly shaking , because he had not eaten in days, and working on slick plywood in the rain... yes there is a God and he had to have had guardian angels all over that roof that day, an another one looking after my best interests too.
if i ever do build again, i will certainly be my own general contractor, and will be really involved with every aspect of the project.
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on January 24, 2011, 12:17:57 AM
in no uncertain terms i would explain to him that i would rather pay an atty twenty whatever thousand bucks to
cut his balls off than give him any more money, and if he didn't accept my final offer then that is exactly what i will do.
I had to do that with a deadbeat lawyer once. My new lawyer said not to be specific about what recourse I might take because to do so could be taken as an attempt at extortion.* When Lawyer 1 ignored three registered letters, each saying the same thing, then received another one from the State Bar, he knew what my recourse was.
My advice: Contractors live and breathe stuff like this every day. They know what they can get away with and what they can't. Don't negotiate with your contractor before you get advice from a lawyer that specializes in Real Estate and/or contracts. A small investment in legal advice can save you grief down the road.
Quinn
*
Extortion.
n. The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
Nice to know there are others out there who had contractor troubles, too. We're on vacation in Switzerland visiting family and friends (planned a year ago and bought w/ FF miles) so I'll have to deal w/ it when we get back.
BTW admin, thanks for finally getting rid of that Spencer guy.
Marcus
So how long is spencer1885 Suspended for? I must of missed somthing? :o
about 6 more days
bob g
all i can say is wow . love what you are doing. we live on the family farm just outside portland if you need anything out of portland if i can help email me. would love to stop by sometime and admire what you have done. we are doing the house plan thing now for almost five years and boy is it hard to get people to follow your dream.
farmer0_1: Thank you very much! Stop by any time. 541-227-8485 cell.
On the contractor issue, I've seen invoices where line items tried to migrate to the next month after getting paid...
Get your invoices together, go through them, and understand what cost more than the budget.
Talk to a lawyer about liens and the contract (and the invoices if *anything* is fishy).
Good luck.
Jeb
forgive me if you've covered this before, (in the previous 100+posts) but what is your 48V battery bank capacity ?
Quote from: mike90045 on February 22, 2011, 08:37:56 AM
forgive me if you've covered this before, (in the previous 100+posts) but what is your 48V battery bank capacity ?
Marcus has the details documented on his site here:
http://www.docbryner.com/mossy_hollow/Home.html
16 x Deka 350 Amp-hr L16 batteries = 33.6 kwh storage total
These batteries are 6 volts each arranged in 2 series strings of 8 batteries for 48 V DC nominal system voltage
Bob B.
great , thanks for the invite. that is one area of oregon i have not spent much time in. drove thru from crater lake to i-5 last year. went to look at some milled juniper just south east of crater lake. we did stay overnite in the lodge that was fun. sorry took so long to get back been kind of hopping here lately. doug 503-913-1901