In previous post I have seen that some users use only SAE30 NONE-Detergent oils.
I am wondering why many users go with none detergent types?
The original Lister manual calls for heavy duty detergent diesel lubricating oil to be used in the CS engines.
I have included a scan of the lubrication section of the manual below.
Later in the manual it states that non-detergent oils can cause a gum buildup in the oil galleries??
Please share some of your lubricant types.
Thanks,
Veggie
>>>> click on image to enlarge <<<<
Wish I could find single weight (heck any weight) non-detergent diesel oil around here to try.
None to be found at O'Reilley or AutoZone.
Multi-weight detergent is all that's available.
I use DELO 400 15w40 or Shell Rotella 15w40.
I have an ASHWAMEGH 25/2 with an oil heater and a spin on filter. The oil pump pipe passes out thru the block to a heat exchanger in the hot water up-leg, then thru the oil filter and back into the block where it squirts onto the main bearing tops in the usual way.
As the engine heats up you can feel the block get warm where the dippers fling the oil (on the oil pump side). I run the water temp about 190F, the oil runs about 180F.
I also have the advanced HOTATER door filter and several magnets.
Next I want to add an automotive power steering pump to increase oil flow to a steady flow instead of the pulsing flow from the Lister plunger pump. Then I can add a funtional low oil pressure alarm system.
15w40 meets the viscosity temperature requirement as set forth in the Lister manual, and is easily found in stores. I heat and filter my oil, so the high detergency is used correctly in my application. My engine does not have the lower extended sump or dipper channels. It's just a big flat bottomed box with a low pocket for the oil pump pick up screen. However, it is easy to wipe clean during an oil change.
I also use a multi-weight detergent oil in my 6/1. It's a Metro without the deep sump. No settling is possible with that sump regardless of oil choice- the dipper goes right through the middle of the smoothly curved floor, very close to the bottom.
I made a gravity fed depth filter box which is mounted below the access door. It holds old cotton socks and underwear scraps. I stole this idea from Hotater/Majic Jack, who had a simpler design using terry cloth and screen. I wanted to have more depth of media and easy media changing.
For years I read occassional references to the "Hotater oil filter". Now that I recently bought a Metro 6/1 splash sump, I have a renewed interest. I even went back to 2005 on the old forum searching by topic and reviewing the photo gallery. I am please to see I didnt have to leave this forum to spot an excellent example of the design. This started me thinking of a slightly different design, one that could be even easier to build and install.
My premise is that flow rate is not as improtant as having a filter that will not foul the rotating crank or brake free and destroy the dipper which equals = a destroyed engine. I have a tolet paper by pass filter on my GTC 20/2 which does a nice job at about 1/3 oz per minute. It would work well at even a lower flow considering 3,600 minutes in a 24 hr period. So what do you think of this tube variation:
Two six (6) in or so 1 1/2 cooper tubes. Each tube cut at a 45 degree angle at one end and the bottom drilled with two or three bolts across the tube preventing the filter media from falling out. I might then mount each tube vertically bracing each on either side of the crank case inspection door on either side of the breather. The whole thing would be attached only to the inspection door. The 45 degree angles at the top of each tube would catch the oil as it is flings off of the rotating crank, the oil will flow down the tube into the rag or other material lightly stuffed into the tube. I think an upper and lower brace on each tube would hold the tube filter securely in place. When it comes time to change the oil, a coat hanger could quickly pull the dirty rag out of the tube and another scrap rag inserted.
What are your thoughts.
any attempt at filtration is a noble effort in my view
and a passive one as suggested and used by others such as the hotater filter
is certainly far better than nothing and probably more than adequate "if" you start out with
a clean engine.
personally i like the p/s pump system, the pumps are cheap from a salvage yard, with low pressure
requirements they need little power to turn them, they allow not only for the use of a real spin on filter
but the ability to plumb the filtered oil anywhere it might be of benefit.
even a hose up to the rocker shaft, with a timed one shot system, where once every hour or so a 5 second shot of oil
could be metered via a timer and solenoid valve. a little trial and error could get that worked out.
maybe a jet of clean oil directed into the cam idler gear, might well increase the durability of that gear set?
and having the ability to have a low pressure alarm or engine shutdown from a low pressure switch might be useful too.
failing that, a small electric pump could either be ran continuous, or even as a batch run system, and powered by the generator
just a thought
fwiw
bob g
How about a little 12v auto fuel pump? Cheap, and one less belt to worry about.
a 12 volt pump may be a good idea
a shurflow rv pump works for pumping my wast oil from one drum to another
Quote from: bschwartz on November 30, 2010, 06:17:05 AM
How about a little 12v auto fuel pump? Cheap, and one less belt to worry about.
I don't think most of the 12V fuel pumps will pump oil. It is too thick, and those pumps are usually cooled by the fuel they are pumping...
i picked up two very nicely built 24vdc gear pumps off ebay maybe 6 months ago
the pump head is quite small, and the motor iirc takes about 3amps to drive it.
i have plans for a backup/preoiler for the changfa trigen, because i don't like the engine starting
under load and having to come up to 1200rpm right off startup.
the thought is perhaps the longevity of the engine would be enhanced and a layer of redundancy in the oil
pump area might provide a sense of security.
basically the pump would be controlled and only be activated prestartup and for a few seconds after, and then only
while running if something should happen to the oem oil pump (which is not likely)
bob g
@bschwartz: Walmart has 2 gallon jugs of SAE30, or did I read your post wrong.
A few months ago I bought a couple of these little Flojet piston pumps for $11.95, rated for continious duty, then measured the oil flow rate cold, determined it has sufficient pressure to slowly pump oil through a tolite paper filter, but became concerned about overing the little piston pump when pumping hot oil. I think I read data on another site claiming it was rated for 180 degree F which seems like it might work.
My firend CUJET suggested I hook up a test rig and pump cold oil for a could of days. Havnt had time to do this test yet, thinking now that this would be a good start and I should find the time. Is anybody else using one of these little piston pumps and what experience have you had? Another worry is that if this little pump got really hot and burned out, I would be suppling a flamable liquid to an igniton source to create a nice fire in my engine shed. I wonder......
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=2-1348-B&catname=]https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=2-1348-B&catname=
mbryner,
Since I wrote that post a year ago, I've given up on finding diesel rated oil that is non detergent. I think the walmart oil isn't rated for diesels, and is detergent. Apparently with a smallish sump in the metro 6/1 the sludge wouldn't settle as well as a real lister's lower sump would. I just run Delo and don't worry about it. I'm sure that it lubricates as well (if not better) than what was available 80 years ago.
That little flojet pump looks perfect. I'd absolutely give it a try as a secondary pump!!! I like it better than a lot of the accessories I run, as there are no losses from a 12v power supply like what I run my WMO fuel pump and line heater from.
haha, I didn't realize that post was from a year ago. thought I came across a new thread...
Issue: Oil pump loss of prime on twins.
Whenever I allow the engine (GTC 20/2) sit more than a day between runs, I have to prime the oil pump. While waiting to hear from others, I decided to tear the oil pump apart and thoroughly clean it. The first observation made was an extremely rough finish on the surface where the inlet ball-bearing seats. I used some valve-grinding compound, and a strip of cloth wrapped around a wood dowel spun by a drill to polish all the gouges and groves from the seats. Gee, I wonder why it held a prime for even a few hours. I've got a few other service items to perform before I run it again but I think it will now hold a prime. Is loss of prime a common problem?
2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 313 317 331 337 347 349 353 359 367 373 379 383 389 397 401 409 419 421 431 433 439 443 449 457 461 463 467 479 487 491 499 503 509 521 523 541
There you go!!! You shouldn't loose prime for a while now ;D ;D
I have a bit of concern using spin-on cartridges on the suction side of the pump.
Seems the slightest bit of clogging (or polymerized WVO) would seriously restrict the flow however, your real world application may prove otherwise.
Do you have the space and available connection points to rig up a post-pump filter ?
veggie
Reference Primes:
"The use of electronic computers has accelerated the discoveries and found all records since 1951. The record passed one million digits in 1999, earning a $50,000 prize. In 2008 the record passed ten million digits, earning a $100,000 prize. Additional prizes are being offered for the first prime number found with at least one hundred million digits and the first with at least one billion digits.
Rank Prime number Found by Found date Comments
1st 243,112,609 − 1 on 23 August 2008 This number is 12,978,189 digits long. It is the largest of the 47 known Mersenne primes as of June 2009.
So does this mean if my engine runs about 13 million times 2 days that it will loose prime?
Reference pump seals:
You know I didnt remove the very bottom pipe fitting next to crank case drain where it pulls oil up the tube. I didnt know there might be another ball bearing with a spring down there. I will remove that plumbing and check. Thank you.
Found these low / high oil level switches in my reading:
http://www.metexcorporation.com/metex_pdf/kenco_pdf/pro_OLC.pdf (http://www.metexcorporation.com/metex_pdf/kenco_pdf/pro_OLC.pdf)
And I have several Murphy switches, top quality for money, for $92 I am thinking about this:
http://shopping.murcal.com/Catalog/Level-Instruments-Lube-Oil/L129-Lube-Level-Swichgage (http://shopping.murcal.com/Catalog/Level-Instruments-Lube-Oil/L129-Lube-Level-Swichgage)
I've seen many of those Kenco switches (and others like them) in service over the years. They are very reliable, and in general, maintenance free. I've seen them in service on turbines, electric motors, pumps, air blowers, compressors, etc., from 3 to 15,000 HP. They are often used for emergency shutdowns.
Quote from: Bruce on December 06, 2010, 03:02:00 AM
And I have several Murphy switches, top quality for money, for $92 I am thinking about this:
http://shopping.murcal.com/Catalog/Level-Instruments-Lube-Oil/L129-Lube-Level-Swichgage (http://shopping.murcal.com/Catalog/Level-Instruments-Lube-Oil/L129-Lube-Level-Swichgage)
I use this Murphy oil level switch and can confirm it works quite well. If you set it up properly, one can use the high level float to shutdown in the event of a broken oil dipper. The oil level is lower when the engine is running and the oil dipper is splashing oil than when the engine is not running or the oil dipper is broken. The high level float will also detect a coolant or fuel leak into the crankcase. Of course, the low level float provides the normally expected low oil level shutdown protection. Just be mindful that you have to vent this Murphy switch to the crankcase for it to function properly.
http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=351
Bob B.