"This just in....Ontario man turns a bulldozer into a wind turbine....film at eleven." ;D
Note: many pictures have been added and they will be put on this page as I proceed wherever I can find room. I apologize for the non-chronological order they appear in. Please scroll down to see them all. Click on them to see a larger version.
Well, I've been waiting for the right place and time to post a picture of my handiwork. Seems like a good way to start the "Projects" forum here and set the bar high at the same time. :)
I started gathering steel and other bits and pieces that I figured would be useful for such a project, just a dream in my mind back about ten years ago. Three years ago I purchased a 1957 Drott crawler loader less bucket and engine because it seemed like a good thing to have at the time although I really had no idea what I was going to do with it. A plan popped into my head one day that if I were to use this heavy lump of steel as a mobile base for a Vertical Axis Wind Turbine, I could avoid all the usual county approval, permitting and inspection nonsense usually associated with a turbine as large as this one would be. I would also avoid any increase in my property taxes which they apply if you add to your infrastructure as they consider stuff like this to increase the value of your property if it has a foundation. The other advantage would be that I could locate it next to my shop for easiest possible access to machines, welder power and tools. Once completed I could test it also next to the shop where the winds are plenty strong enough at the height this thing is, then once the bugs are worked out I can drive it into the field where it will get maximum clear air.
Turning a tracked crawler into a mobile six storey tall VAWT would be a great and unique storey for "How I Pimped My Ride!" :D
A 6-1/2 HP industrial 4-stroke gasoline Honda clone engine from Princess Auto moves this beast through a centrifugal clutch, chain and sprocket reduction into a beefy 10:1 reduction worm gearbox that then spins a Ford truck driveshaft energizing the original transaxle of the crawler. It will do a slow walking pace. When the time comes to move this I want a TV film crew here. This will look like NASA moving their Saturn-V rocket from the VAB to the launch pad!
I got started on the 4" solid steel upper mainshaft, brake and bearings sub-assembly three summers ago. Two summers ago I was too ill to work on it. Last summer I gave this my all from May through early November and got it to the point you see here in the picture. This picture was taken this past spring. I was sick again all this year but was able to get back to work on the project intermittently about 3 weeks ago. I am now installing the long split vertical driveshaft and speed increasing gearbox components. The generator head(s) will sit in the engine compartment of the crawler where their weight will be useful as ballast and access for service will be most convenient. My hopes to have it completed this year were dashed but now I have hopes of completion next year. This absolutely represents the most ambitious, totally scratch built DIY project I have ever tackled in my entire life. What is amazing is that I have accomplished all of the work on-site totally alone, never with any second helping pair of hands or benefit of a crane. That 28 foot yellow lifting gantry made from TV tower was something I built ten years ago to facilitate the assembly of large Tesla coils outdoors. It was just the thing in the way of a skyhook I needed to enable this project. Along the way I have had to improvise several unique lifting tools and fixtures to accomplish my mission. With the on board electric crane winch I will be able to install the blades or swap them for improved ones later all by myself and without ever having to pay for an expensive crane rental. Out of necessity for me this entire design was about least capitol cost, and the capability of doing it all with only one pair of hands. Also in the design is the ease in which blades and generator heads can be swapped in and out as a R&D turbine.
The four vertical blades will be ~2 feet wide and 21 feet long each. They will rotate on the ends of those eight outrigger radial arms sweeping a circle 24 feet in diameter. The blades will be attached at their 1/3rd and 2/3rd points with the tops of the blades at 50 feet height. The lower radial arm I am standing on in the picture is at a height of 36 feet. I plan to DIY the blades myself. The swept area of this turbine will be 40 square meters.
The structure as shown is absolutely stable with the six outrigger screw jack stands wound up for travel. In the cranked down position the tower feels like it is in a 20 cubic meters of concrete foundation. Very solid!
I will post further information and detail pictures of the construction in time.
I am 55 now and suffer disability. I have to tell you that I was very aware that putting off this project any longer would have likely killed it. Even now I am unable to do what I could last year and am so thankful that I found the means and ambition to tackle this when I did. My point is that if any of you out there have any grand project ideas that would benefit from a strong youthful and healthy body, tackle them NOW!
I'll be so proud to see this finished! It is expected to make enough power to not only get me off grid but also offset some of my home heating bills by running resistance heaters. In the future I hope to tackle a DIY ground sourced heat pump which if powered by this turbine, with a COP of say 3, will be enough to heat my home as well as light it for free! It appears that in this new forum we have the right place to discuss control systems, battery banks, inverters and the refrigeration compressors and heat exchangers that will all be employed in my home freedom power system!
Cheers!
Picture explanation: The second picture shows the IHC pancake step up gearbox I used from a large farm bailer. This simple 1:7.5 ratio, two gear box uses massive straight cut gears about 2-1/2" wide. It takes the 60 RPM from the turbine and steps it up to 450 RPM at the 18.5" 4-groove vee belt pulley below where the DC starter motor gets connected. Two additional pulley grooves are available for a small secondary generator head to charge the starter battery and whatever. Below this a 90 degree 1:1 box. also sourced from the bailer unit provides a horizontal drive for the big generator. For now I am trying a further 1:4 increaser to allow the use of an 1800+ RPM genhead. Picture of that additional drive is located lower in the page. I was fortunate to acquire two identical IHC units as shown so that I not only have a spare gearbox of each type but also two massive 5" wide x 33" diameter flywheels to play with on another project.
Here is that little 6-1/2 HP engine that would normally power a push lawn mower. Ha ha!
Here I have located the crawler into the work location and leveled it. The lifting gantry has been brought in close and the first tower leg, the one with the ladder on it has just been installed and then the one across from it. At this stage of the project it would take a whole day to lift one tower leg into position and weld it. The tower legs are 4-1/2" OD., 1/8" wall welded seam steel irrigation pipe. I used many, many 21 foot lengths in this project which I got a good deal on from a truck rollover situation. The tower legs are 31-1/2 feet or 1&1/2 lengths of pipe long each.
Pictures:I apologize for the jumping around in chronological sequence. The view looking down is after three legs have been installed. By this point it was not so nerve racking to climb to the top of the ladder! :)
The last pic here is almost current (Nov. 2009), of the lower part of the machine with work proceeding on the powertrain at this time. The I-beam is for a motorized winch or chainfall to make it easy to install/swap/upgrade the bearboxes and generator heads. Out of economic necessity the entire design facilitates being able to be both assembled without a crane but also maintained including airfoil installation and swapping out later by a single person.
BTW, the tower legs are 4-1/2" OD., 1/8" wall welded seam steel irrigation pipe. I used many, many 21 foot lengths in this project which I got a good deal on from a truck rollover situation. The tower legs are 31-1/2 feet or 1&1/2 lengths of pipe long each.
Pictures:
These pictures show the pre-assembled weldment which is the upper mainshaft, mainbearing, secondary bearing and brake assembly. Assembled as shown it weighs 900 lbs. I disassembled it and lifted the empty frame up topside when the time came and it fit perfectly into the space reserved for it. After welding it home I lifted the components with the service platform winch crane and reassembled it.
The lower tier of the radial arm system which the four airfoil blades will bolt to was manufactured as one piece at ground level and then lifted and dropped into position on the mounting flange plate up top of the 4" solid steel main short shaft. The upper vertical shaft and four upper radials were much harder to install piece by piece and welded together at height since I had no skyhook available that was higher than they were.
i remember when you first postulated this project on another forum, and to be honest it appeared to be way
to ambitious for a single man.
my hat is off to you though!
you have the extremely difficult tasks behind you, and now you have the wind engine and power generation
tasks ahead of you, both of which seem like a cakewalk compared to what the project took to get this far.
i am sure you are aware of Ed from windstuffnow.com he is into the vertical windgenerators and might be of assistance
if you need any when it comes to what you need up top.
what rpm do you expect to have to work with down below?
are you trying for 120 or 240 vac at around 60hz? or is Very strong DC the goal?
recently i finally came across what i feel is the holy grail of alternator design, and equipped with it and a few hours
i think a person could build just about any alternator of any size he so chose and get one that would be likely
better than 85% efficient in the process.
if you would like to get a copy it is titled
Dynamo-Electric Machinery
a manual for students of Electrotechnics
by
Silvanus P. Thompson
864 pages with 30 bi and trifold plates in the back
i have a 4th edition from about 1894 and it is most excellent in illustrating, design concerns, math involved, and scale
plates and full descriptions of a large number of successful designs of the day. Most of which were well into the 90% efficient range
even back then. i have been looking for a book that covers this topic as this one does for at least 30 years, and i just happened to stumble
across the title while looking for something else that i don't recall just now. the book has been through many reprintings up to about 2005
i think.
it only seems a fitting tribute to your project to fit it with a custom built alternator assembled from some of the stuff salvage from
what is avialable today, such as a large ID stator houseing and brg end plates. Basically find yourself a huge induction motor with a good
stator core, rotorshaft, brgs and housing and build up your own rotor to make it as make as many poles as needed, and rewind the stator to get the voltage you are after,, all the details are in the book to get you close enough for some test coils.
i don't think i would go with permanent magnet rotor/field either, most machines can be built with excitation currents only about one percent
of output capacity anyway and with a wound rotor a purpose built regulator could control the beast in my opinion.
thanks for posting this project, it is inspirational
bob g
Thanx for the compliments Bob. Yes the hardest work is now behind me. I agree with your suggestion about making my own alternator. I should have the capability of spinning my gen head between about 500 and 2700 RPM depending on whether or not I use a secondary step up gearbox.
I am dealing with this part of the project now.
It turns out I have acquired two possible large induction motors which might serve here.
One is a like new, totally sealed 20 HP, 575 volt- 3-phase, 6-pole motor (1175 RPM). I could use it as is by resonating it with capacitors, or machine the rotor and add neodemium magnets. The high voltage is convenient as it will reduce line losses in the long wiring across the field and the pole count is attractive for a lower speed option. I wish it was twice as big on the HP rating though. The windings are only rated at 20 amps and the only time I will get my full turbine power is when the motor is driven to rated shaft speed because as you decrease the motor speed (frequency) your magnetics can only support diminishing electrical power levels. It has not escaped me that an induction motor like this, unlike the issues with wound armatures, would not be in danger of rotor exposion operating at 2X or even 3X shaft speed. By overspeeding it I could run with more voltage and get considerably more power out of my 20 amp wire limit. I don't know how high I could safely push the voltage though. Maybe I could get away with approaching 1000 VAC on a 575 volt motor since it will be dry inside, sealed from the weather.
I also have a 100 HP, 2-pole (3450 RPM) motor. This is also 3-phase and 575 volt high voltage. The windings are rated at 98 amps continuous, nice! I have spun this beast up to half speed (1800 RPM) with my Changfa 1115 using resonating caps to self excite it as a induction alternator. I was able to pull quite a few KW's out of it at 30 Hz into a light bulb and space heater load bank. I was thinking of the neo magnet route and a stator rewind to install the maximum possible pole count. I think I figured I could fit 8 poles into this frame. That would be best but hugely challenging for me. The motor is potted with epoxy resin and getting the old wire out without ruining the stator would be a big challenge. Rewinding it would cost a fortune in copper and I don't think I am up to it. If this motor were a 4 pole I would use it at reduced speed in a heartbeat! I have stripped out an ST-12 head a couple of years ago and it is still waiting for me to rewind it. :( Latest info: I am now considering to use this 100 HP motor without modification as a self-excited induction generator. With gearboxes now in place I will be able to spin it at speeds in the powerband of the turbine between 1500 and 2700 RPM. That will provide ~25-45 Hz output without overvoltage or iron core saturation issues.
In the spirit of your mentioning the old school motor textbook, it occurred to me that I might find a large diameter stator open frame motor with wound armature from an ancient building elevator. I made some inquiries but fell short of acquisiton. I am committed now as to what physical size of alternator/generator I can use. I have provided just enough clearance for my 100 HP motor. I figure that will accomodate just about any fairly modern motor conversion or real synchronous alternator (like an ST head). I would like to try and find a copy of your book!
Since I plan to be be off-grid I do not need to worry about making my system put out 60 Hz, my plan is to use wild voltage and wild frequency AC directly in resistance heaters, possibly with crude voltage regulation provided by a motorized 3-phase variac. After that I will use the crudely regulated voltage, wild frequency to charge batteries via a custom built regulating rectifier. Critical loads in the home will all get power from a bank of 12 volt inverters wired to various circuits. I gave up trying to acquire a 48 volt single inverter capable of all the power I want to process and over the past few years acquired enough 12 volt inverters, both sine wave as well as modified-sine wave to get a good start. Basically each exising circuit breaker in the main panel will get it's own dedicated inverter.
I acquired a large number of ex-telecom 12 volt, 105 AH, AGM batteries two years ago. I have had them wired in parallel groups of four in a string (48 volts) on constant float charge since I also got a pair of 48 volt telecom battery chargers to keep them well until I am ready to use them. I discovered to my dismay that this has caused me to loose a lot of batteries as they have been dropping like flies. One battery of the four will start to hog current causing an overvoltage on the other three taking them out as well. So I loose four batteries instead of one. Since I am unlikely to get a new set of batteries due to a lack of funding, because of this experience I have considered that having a massive 12 volt buss with as many batteries as I can get, each individually breakered at about 1/3rd C to the main buss is the best way to go as far as best battery life goes. The need to equalize each cell in the entire pack goes away. There is no-hope of equalizing a large batch of well used lead acids batteries. I spent some time on an EV forum and those guys with 120 volt+ battery banks really have to worry about getting every single cell matched when they pull hundreds of amps routinely out of the pack and that current has to go through every single cell. A slightly weak cell will easily get forced into voltage reversal under such conditions and explode. Used batteries are almost useless in an EV project and even brand new ones pretty much have to all be from the same batch and then conductance selected as well. Even brand new batteries that have sat on the store shelf for 6 months are to be avoided.
Actually although I had heard of WindstuffNow I have not studied that resource or communicated with Ed. I'll have to check him out, thanx! I did contact a local university professor who had recently worked with a commercial VAWT project for an Ontario company. I got a few helpful tips from an email and the encouragemnent that my machine should produce 10 kW in 'not so big' winds. My offer to involve the university by using my turbine as a teaching tool for blade development fell on ears that were too comfortable and not looking for 'having to get out of the comfy chair type' projects.
Since Darrius type turbines are not self-starting, making one grid connected with an induction generator is an ideal situation because the mains connection and motor can be used to start the turbine. Being off-grid introduces the challenge of having to engineer a starting motor system. I am leaning towards a 24 volt starter motor with a couple of truck batteries on the device, clutched into the powertrain at some point with a sprag or clutch. If possible I would like to find a PM DC motor that could be engaged all the time which would double as a charger to keep the starting batteries at full charge. It appears that I may need around 10-15 HP @ ~1800 RPM to start the machine. A starter from a highway diesel tractor will have the power, but coupling it would be a challenge requiring elimination of the Bendix drive. My VW diesel has a PM 12 volt starter motor. Bob, do you know of any large format 28 volt truck starters that are permanent magnet? Reason being is I might be able to use one dual duty as a battery charging generator as well. A starter motor is not designed for a lot of rotations so the bronze bushings would have to be replaced with ball bearings. Arggg. Every aspect of this project is a project in itself!!!!!
Well these are a few of the issues I am dealing with for your consideration.
Peace.
Late entry. I have attached additional photos of the build process.
I have added more photos of the build process. I especially like the third one taken from up on a long extension ladder which was perched on the service platform allowing me to weld the upper radial arms into place. Looking straight down into the tower. I had to overcome my fear of heights and be ever warry of my vertigo when working up there all alone.
The scariest thing I had to do was walk out on the lower radial arms to the end to unbolt the lifting jig from the outer end plate of the upper radial arms after they were lifted and welded into position. :o
rcavictim
Wow great read and great project. ;D
Wish we were neighbors I would lend a hand from time to time......
Billswan
PS take plenty of vitamins and minerals, my health improved greatly after starting down that road!!
And yes they all cost to much but crappy health costs to.
I'd like to wholeheartedly agree with Bill - wow, what a project! I'm especially impressed that it was a single-handed build; that's a lot of metal for one man to move around...
As I expect to have similar issues when I finally head for foreign shores, I'm watching this one with interest.
Wow! now that is differant. I like it.
Henry
Thats really neat . I missed a opurtunity to buy a 200 foot tall microwave relay tower on an acre of land from the phone company about 10 years ago just a few block from my house , kicked my self ever since. It has a platform at the top 30x30 feet and would have been ideal for a wind gen project
Quote from: panaceabeachbum on September 29, 2009, 08:08:33 AM
Thats really neat . I missed a opurtunity to buy a 200 foot tall microwave relay tower on an acre of land from the phone company about 10 years ago just a few block from my house , kicked my self ever since. It has a platform at the top 30x30 feet and would have been ideal for a wind gen project
man that is big enough to build a house on. Think of the view.
When you are home leave the elevator up, that way if somebody comes to visit you, you know they are not just coming to hang out because your house is convenient. They really want to see you.
Quote from: panaceabeachbum on September 29, 2009, 08:08:33 AM
Thats really neat . I missed a opurtunity to buy a 200 foot tall microwave relay tower on an acre of land from the phone company about 10 years ago just a few block from my house , kicked my self ever since. It has a platform at the top 30x30 feet and would have been ideal for a wind gen project
There is a self supporting monster tower like that about 10 miles from my location. Had sugar scoop cornucopia horn antennas on it as part of the Trans Canada Microwave Bell System and the Northern Electric TD-2 system until about 6 years ago. I remember when the site was decommissioned and they auctioned off the diesel generator. The towers and block house building are still up and not offered for sale because the telco owner recognizes the value of holding onto this assett. Getting a permit to put up a tower like this now would be difficult. That one is grandfathered.
You could have likely made money renting space on that tower had you bought it for wireless internet and other modern services. Not buying that place at the time
if it was within your means was perhaps an unforunate lack of vision. Yes a house with a terrific view and a wind turbine could have been yours as well. Revenue from hosting antennas could have covered your cost of living.
Pictures: The first photo below shows the secondary 1:4 ratio gearbox output which is the hi-speed port (~1500-2700 RPM) connection for the large primary generator head which will mount on the rails provided. Second pic shows the package of upper main shaft, two bearings and large drum brake after being installed and reassembled into the top of the tower. Also show is the 4" solid steel mainshaft on the lathe and the massive dual roller spherical main bearing, the earliest work done on the project three years ago.
did you ever get a large slow speed alternator sorted out for this project?
i would love to find a stator with about a 24" id, the rest i can figure out on my own
it sure would be fun to build a large slowspeed alternator for that project of yours.
iirc you were entertaining the idea of modifying or building an alternator for your windmachine, so
i got to thinking,, hmmm maybe i should ask about it?
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on September 29, 2009, 09:46:51 PM
did you ever get a large slow speed alternator sorted out for this project?
i would love to find a stator with about a 24" id, the rest i can figure out on my own
it sure would be fun to build a large slowspeed alternator for that project of yours.
iirc you were entertaining the idea of modifying or building an alternator for your windmachine, so
i got to thinking,, hmmm maybe i should ask about it?
bob g
Hi Bob,
Boy a 24" stator would be a sweet place to begin a DIY slow speed alternator alright! Good luck finding one. You may have missed my comments about my possible alternator above so here they are specifically reprinted.
It turns out I have acquired two possible large induction motors which might serve here.
One is in my current avatar with the end cap removed. It is a like new, totally sealed 20 HP, 575 volt- 3-phase, 6-pole motor (1175 RPM). I could use it as is by resonating it with capacitors, or machine the rotor and add neodemium magnets. The high voltage is convenient as it will reduce line losses in the long wiring across the field and the pole count is attractive for a lower speed option. I wish it was twice as big on the HP rating though. The windings are only rated at 20 amps and the only time I will get my full turbine power is when the motor is driven to rated shaft speed because as you decrease the motor speed (frequency) your magnetics can only support diminishing electrical power levels. It has not escaped me that an induction motor like this, unlike the issues with wound armatures, would not be in danger of rotor exposion operating at 2X or even 3X shaft speed. By overspeeding it I could run with more voltage and get considerably more power out of my 20 amp wire limit. I don't know how high I could safely push the voltage though. Maybe I could get away with approaching 1000 VAC on a 575 volt motor since it will be dry inside, sealed from the weather.
I also have a 100 HP, 2-pole (3450 RPM) motor. This is also 3-phase and 575 volt high voltage. The windings are rated at 98 amps continuous, nice! I have spun this beast up to half speed (1800 RPM) with my Changfa 1115 using resonating caps to self excite it as a induction alternator. I was able to pull quite a few KW's out of it at 30 Hz into a light bulb and space heater load bank. I was thinking of the neo magnet route and a stator rewind to install the maximum possible pole count. I think I figured I could fit 8 poles into this frame. That would be best but hugely challenging for me. The motor is potted with epoxy resin and getting the old wire out without ruining the stator would be a big challenge. Rewinding it would cost a fortune in copper and I don't think I am up to it. If this motor were a 4 pole I would use it at reduced speed in a heartbeat! I have stripped out an ST-12 head a couple of years ago and it is still waiting for me to rewind it. Right now my first alternator is likely to be the 6 pole, 20 HP induction motor with resonating capacitors. Not the ideal but capable of significant power and I already have it. I only need to purchase a couple hundred dollars worth of surplus motor run caps. The way my system is designed I have a built in I-beam lift system and it will be extremely easy to remove and swap the heaviest of alternator/generator heads from ground level in front of the machine.
BTW, if anyone in say Ontario knows of the whereabouts of an ancient open frame generator with large diameter and lots of pole pieces like the ones used early in the last century on water wheel power stations, or perhaps 1930's vintage elevator motors, please let me know!!!I also asked you in a later post if you knew of any permanent magnet 24 volt heavy truck engine starter motors? I need to make up a DC , battery powered starter motor for my non-self starting darrius turbine. I guestimate that I'll require an intermittent 10-15 HP at about 1800 RPM or a bit less.
In addition to the all gearbox speed increasing path to the main generator head I am setting up a parallel belt drive system to support the starter motor and a smaller kVA auxiliary generator head to maintain charge on the starter batteries and perhaps make more power than the main gen head can in lower wind conditions.
Pictures: First image shows the two piece vertical drive shaft and steady bearing. The third picture shows the heavy 100 HP, 550 volt, 3-phase, 3600 RPM induction motor that I am now looking at using as the self excited induction generator. It has a continuous current rating of 98 amps per leg so there is no way I'll burn it out. I will not be overvolting it so my selection of reasonably priced motor run caps needed to make it generate will be easy. I have tested it at 1800 RPM on my Changfa1115 and it easily put out several kW at half nameplate voltage and 30 Hz. It will match the power curve of my turbine output well from 1500 RPM to 2700 RPM producing from about 20 Hz to 45 Hz output frequency with no core saturation issues. The last image shows the Changfa spinning it at 1800 RPM as an islanded, self-excited induction generator.
sorry it took so long to respond, somehow i got sidetracked and forgot ???
as for the pm hd truck starter question? i am unaware of any big truck alternators that have pm fields
sure would be cool to build up a monster axial flux alternator for that machine of yours, something scaled
up version of those that the otherpower boys build everyday.
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on October 15, 2009, 01:21:04 PM
sorry it took so long to respond, somehow i got sidetracked and forgot ???
as for the pm hd truck starter question? i am unaware of any big truck alternators that have pm fields
sure would be cool to build up a monster axial flux alternator for that machine of yours, something scaled
up version of those that the otherpower boys build everyday.
bob g
You're also a busy guy Bob, no prob. :D Yes a BIG axial flux machine, well I think I'd prefer a BIG radial flux machine like the old dynamos in power plants. I have an idea that one might take a large iron wheel and put neo magnets around the periphery. For pole pieces on might find a surplus buy of some sort of power xfmer in an E-I formation and if lucky even re-use one of the winding bobbins. Power xfmers from microwave ovens come to mind. One could weld up a steel frame to hold all the poles in position.
Truth is I won't have time to go that route initially but it is always something to think about.
Bump. See many more pictures on page one! Added today with explanational text.
wow rca,
what an accomplishment. To be honest with you I thought you would never get it done. Way to go, and I'm sure the satisfaction of giving the power co the boot and having all that free power makes it all worthwhile
Congrats
Quote from: mkdutchman on November 06, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
wow rca,
what an accomplishment. To be honest with you I thought you would never get it done. Way to go, and I'm sure the satisfaction of giving the power co the boot and having all that free power makes it all worthwhile
Congrats
Thank you for the compliment. I see the light at the end of the tunnel on this project now, powered by clean renewable energy of course! :) I still have some criss-crosses to install in the tower and strengthening gusset plates in a few places. I need a brake actuator mechanism and of course the four DIY airfoil blades. Then there is a on-board monitoring/control system and a complete electrical system starting with the big generating alternator head.
As for giving the power company the boot........priceless! 8)
Quote from: rcavictim on September 30, 2009, 07:38:44 AMI need to make up a DC , battery powered starter motor for my non-self starting darrius turbine. I guestimate that I'll require an intermittent 10-15 HP at about 1800 RPM or a bit less.
Looking at your photos for your blade mounts, I'm thinking, you do NOT have a Darrieus design, and therefor, it should self-start.
I've seeing attachment points for 4 blades in the photo, behind your head, Darrieus generally only have 2, and don't easily start.
Look at the Cycloturbine variation .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbine#Cycloturbines
Quote from: mike90045 on November 06, 2009, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: rcavictim on September 30, 2009, 07:38:44 AMI need to make up a DC , battery powered starter motor for my non-self starting darrius turbine. I guestimate that I'll require an intermittent 10-15 HP at about 1800 RPM or a bit less.
Looking at your photos for your blade mounts, I'm thinking, you do NOT have a Darrieus design, and therefor, it should self-start.
I've seeing attachment points for 4 blades in the photo, behind your head, Darrieus generally only have 2, and don't easily start.
Look at the Cycloturbine variation .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbine#Cycloturbines
Sorry Mike but you are mistaken. The number of blades matters not whether the design is a Darrius or a Savonius. The determination is whether the system operates in drag mode (Savonius) or lift mode (Darrius). If I put drag blades on this I will have totally wasted my time as the max power would only be around 2.5 kW in the highest winds because of the slow turbine speed which is always much less than the windspeed. In a two blade Darrius the blades want to run between 3 and 5+ times windspeed but the more blades, or the wider (greater solidity) the slower it will spin . Fast two blade designs (eggbeater) as pretty much all the early ones were tended to tear themselves apart in the blades due to the high stresses and flexure per rotation. Three and five blade designs are now popular. Four blade designs are susceptible to certain resonant vibration modes that can be troublesome but I went with four because of the materials I had to work with and because I wanted a slower speed turbine than a three blade. I considered five blades just too darned much work and also too much rotating mass upstairs. As it is now even without any blades this system stores a lot of energy. I can even feel the twist in my long driveshaft just turning the system by hand. That will absorb peak shock loads and protect the drivetrain. I'll be far less likely to shear keyways in the various couplers.
Now,
if I were to add pitch control to my blades so I could change the attack angle on the fly to each blade depending on where it was in the rotation
I could make a "Cycloturbine" that was self starting with lift blades and also optimize power production for every useful windspeed. I am not prepared to attempt that at this early stage due to the greater degree of complexity and significant cost increase. I'm barely able to put this together on a near zero budget as it is.
My big challenge now is to make these rather large blades 24" wide x 21 feet long, as light as possible. That means I have to pay trade prices on new exotic materials like fiberglass, aluminum skin and foam.
Imagine two cast iron small block Chevy V-8 engines spinning around a rotating shaft at 100 RPM while tied by 12 foot long steel cables. The centrifugal forces on those cables would be huge. This was what I was looking at if I built my blades out of all steel. I have the necessary materials at hand to do this but don't want to invite disaster. I need to get the weight per blade down to 100 lbs. Even less if at all possible.
This is not a small machine and the engineering challenges are perhaps even more difficult because all along I have had to make use of re-purposed, salvaged materials. This is how I have always made my projects however so my brain is totally programmed to design in this manner.
Just in case anyone is not quite sure what sort of airfoil blades I shall be putting on the ends of those eight radial arms have a look at this system in the photograph. These are lift blades shaped like an airplane wing.
My blades will be 21 feet long. The radial arms are 7 feet apart. That allows me to attach the blades at the 1/3rd and 2/3rd points. They will rotate around a 24 foot diameter circle on a vertical axis.
That's going to be one mean green machine
Quote from: rcavictim on September 26, 2009, 01:25:16 AM
Here is that little 6-1/2 HP engine that would normally power a push lawn mower. Ha ha!
MMMMM if a lawn mower engine can move it, I bet the wind mill could too. I can just see the newspapers now "Wind powered bulldozer". now that would be very cool.
Wow,
That's a mammoth project.!
Congrats thus far.
Looking forward to seeing the YouTube video of it spinning in the wind.
I can see it now......a little "Ontario Hydro" residential power meter spinning backwards at 36,000 rpm (and smoking). ;D
veggie
Been toiling away at my personal mega-project and am pleased to announce that the generator head is now installed. This completes the entire drivetrain from end to end except that I still have no airfoils bolted upstairs to the radial arm system.. If I did I could make electricity as soon as I find a box to place the STC voltage regulator and 3-phase exciter rectifier into which had to be remoted for this install. There was not enough room for the original doghouse on the STC head. I wouldn't let this spin up yet though as there is no brake actvation device installed yet and I still have more heavy steel welding to do in the base for strength and more ballast weight to add downstairs. I have gotten quite a bit accomplished already this year. Not yet certain if I will have it doing test runs under wind power this year but I sure am gonna try. I have gotten it pretty darned close. This is year four in the actual contruction. There are so many details and each detail is like a major fabrication project in itself. Much for one working alone to do.
Pics attached. I have two weather covers now fabricated. One covers the genhead and driving gearbox which can be seen in the first picture. The other cover keeps rain out of the upper pancake gearbox. Every time it rained the rain would run down the long vertical driveshaft and get into the upper gearbox. I have drained and changed the 2 gallons of gear oil in that box three times now for want of a cover system. That is now done.
I had the STC head apart and put a generous coating of varathane on the windings inside. I also balanced the badly out of balance armature. The interconnecting leads flying exposed between the four field coils on the armature were tied back with lacing twine and coated with epoxy. Everything got a good bakeout after the work. I am installing 1/4" mesh in the vent holes to hopefully keep critters out. I was pleased to learn that my head uses all copper windings and the sealed bearings. I did not upgrade them as they are OK right now (should be they are brand new!) and I just don't have a spare $100 to do things twice at this stage.
More as it accumulates. ;)
Looks Great!
Keep up the good work
Rob
Very Very nice!! 8)
RCA:
i swear to all that is holy, you have to have some egyptian ancestery!
hats off to ya man!
good work, hope to see it turning soon.
bob g
Brilliant work RCA. You are an inspiration to those of us who toil away single-handedly, and I'm well looking forward to seeing this project trundle into its home.
Speaking of which.... I presume you have mounted electric motors in the treads, so it's self propelled? ;D
Is it WOW! or Oh My God! Far Out fershure.
An awesome tribute to what determination can accomplish. It takes a lot of "stick to it" to last through all those separate challenges. Even a short single handed creation can teach a man a lot about the meaning of Love/hate relationships, but this is something else!
Nice looking welding: nice use of the old hay bailer flywheel and gear box!
Thank you all for your accolades. I do hope that someone who sees what I have accomplished might be inspired to tackle that big project that they might not otherwise attempt and complete it.
Here is a picture taken looking straight down inboard from the end of the 4th storey height service platform. One thing visible is how I was able to create a very circular landing pattern for the outboard stabilizers making a generously sized footprint compared to the area otherwise taken merely by the crawler tracks. The system is quite stable setting merely on the tracks and was actually without stabilizers until just prior to the installation of the rotating topgear two years ago.
Lately I've been busy reinforcing the outrigger arm system at the base where the jacks mount. This work involves tying the jack end mounting plates all togther with concrete filled steel pipe and reinforcing the I-beam outrigger arms themselves with rebar steel used as triangulation to simulate a box beam. The picture shows a work in progress.
And just how many pounds of welding rods and gallons of paint have you expended to date?? :o
You remind me of the tale of the Bumble Bee, it is impossible for him to fly, but nobody told him, so he goes ahead and flys anyway.
Ron
Quote from: vdubnut62 on July 31, 2010, 12:08:47 PM
And just how many pounds of welding rods and gallons of paint have you expended to date?? :o
You remind me of the tale of the Bumble Bee, it is impossible for him to fly, but nobody told him, so he goes ahead and flys anyway.
Ron
I've easily gone through 100 pounds, likely more, of welding rod. Probably 7-8 gallons of paint so far. What is frustrating, due to the huge scope of this project for one man is that it ain't even finished yet but the paint put on two years ago has faded and most of the project needs to be painted again. That's not fair I tell ya'! >:(
Paint is only for corrosion protection anyway ::).
Just keep flying brother!
Ron
Bump. Lots more steel around the base added, plus the perimeter pipes are filled with concrete for additional ballast.
archive.org website for Dynamo-electric machinery; a manual for students of electrotechnics (http://www.archive.org/details/dynamoelectricma00thomrich)
and
the pdf (http://www.archive.org/download/dynamoelectricma00thomrich/dynamoelectricma00thomrich.pdf)
rm /everything else
Last fall I got the rotating carousel sanded, properly primered and repainted with top notch coatings, and then installed the 1/4" aircraft cables needed to stabilize the structure once the airfoils are attached. I cannot tension all these lines until the blades are hung. The original coat of white was put on in November at freezing temperatures two years ago and had begun to fail. Trying to do too much sometimes.
This thing makes me feel like I am building a tall ship out of steel. Here is a shot of the rigging without the 'sails'.
RCA
you are an animal!
and my hero!
:)
following your progress on that machine leaves me with a clear understanding of just how easy the egyptians had building
those puny little pyramids!
i am thinking 10 guys like you could build a pyramid to match the great one at giza in a weekend!
:)
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on March 01, 2011, 04:14:36 PM
RCA
you are an animal!
and my hero!
:)
following your progress on that machine leaves me with a clear understanding of just how easy the egyptians had building
those puny little pyramids!
i am thinking 10 guys like you could build a pyramid to match the great one at giza in a weekend!
:)
bob g
Thanx for the kind support Bob! I sure would like to get this thing finished this year. It is really starting to get tedious. Spring is coming soon I hope, then I can get back to making the airfoils. In the meantime I'm busy as possible doing a major conduit and wiring install in the house basement with inverter and battery bank so I'll be able to use the power generated by the wind as soon as it is making power. I will have full monitoring and control of the turbine from the power room in the house. Good project to do in the winter as this work is all indoors.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Just, like, WOW.
I think I may have used the word "awesome" as well - which, from a Brit, is highly unusual. We're not easily awestruck, but this project does it. BTW, over here, you'd need planning permission for that thing. I wasn't even allowed to keep a bus outside my house, with the planning people getting all uppity, they'd probably suffer a mass coronary if I showed up with a bulldozer windfarm!
Have you got a name for the beast yet?
my vote is to name it
Godzilla
its big, it green,,, and its big!
:)
bob g
It it will fly. And it will spit fire!
I'm with mobile_bob.
Casey
Hey RCA, how about Victor. :)
Henry
Some of you might remember Doug K. from the LEF. He was/is an electrician at the big mine in Sudbury. Doug once told a funny story about a large piece of machinery at the mine which he had referred to as the "BRT" to a supervisor who had then used that term to describe the thing in conversation with one of the upper management types. This embarassed supervisor later learning that Doug had made up this acronym got upset at Doug. The acronym stood for "Big Round Thing". I thought that was pretty funny.
In tribute to Doug and inkeeping with the philosophy of acronyms I have been referring to my creation as the "BGT" or Big Green Thing. This could also mean...
Bob's Greatest Test/Trial/Testimonial etc.
Bob's Giant Turbine
Bob's Geriatric Test
Bug Government Taxman
Other ideas include Wind Trakker
I had a fleeting thought to paint a message on the four rotating vertical blades but the thought of any further relationship with Ontario Hydro, especially one involving intimate bodily contact is just too unappealing. :D
O H K M
N Y I Y
T D S
A R S A
R O *
I *
O
Regards to all my fans and thank you for your support. Fairly recent pic attached taken last summer.
Here is a full on shot taken last fall.
Was going through some early project pictures. Here is one showing the tower having just basically filled out to final shape. At this point I was able to get a clear realization that ....I had a hell of a lot more work to do. Quite. That was summer 2008.
Some of you might notice that there are no outrigger jacks in place to help stabilize this structure at that time. It was remarkably well balanced and stable sitting merely on the tracks. Even today I can crank up all the jacks so the entire structure rests only on the tracks and it is quite firm although I can get it rocking a small amount with my bodyweight from the top of the ladder or service platform. With the feet down it feels as secure as being buried in a 20 cubic yard cement foundation.
Quote from: rcavictim on March 05, 2011, 09:45:53 PM
Was going through some early project pictures. Here is one showing the tower having just basically filled out to final shape. At this point I was able to get a clear realization that ....I had a hell of a lot more work to do. Quite. That was summer 2008.
i got to hand it to ya, That project would have overwhelmed me a long time ago. And to think I have been procrastinating on removing the flywheel from my mower to replace the ring gear.
I can't wait to see a YouTube video of that thing in action :o
Ron
The snow has finally frigged off (not a big fan of winter), and I am now seeing a few days of outdoor weather suitable for outdoor puttering. So far I have managed to get the ribs welded onto one of the 21 foot long blade spars. Hard to see in this busy picture but what is clear, these airfoils are gonna be huge! :o I have some sheet steel which is in two long rolls, 4 feet wide from two dump salvaged above ground pool surrounds which will be held to these ribs with zillions of pop rivets. I have much more reinforcement fabrication to do, this is just an early picture to help demonstrate the scale of the things.
What I see here reminds me of a rack or ribs, maybe the historical remains of a ship long ago floundered on the rocks in a storm or a beached whale with only the skeleton remaining. None of these are particularly good images, except maybe the rack or ribs...mmmmm 8). I guess I'd better get this past the present 'look of the thing' in a hurry.
RCA
are you sure you don't have some egyptian in your genetics?
the scale of your project is nothing short of amazing to me!
its one thing to build a stationary object big, but quite another to build one that is meant to not only move
but harness the power of nature and convert it into another form of power on this scale.
can't wait for the youtube clip!
what kind of pop rivets? you might want to go with steel rivets or stainless and an air power tool to set them.
bob g
Quote from: mobile_bob on April 14, 2011, 09:43:11 AM
RCA
are you sure you don't have some egyptian in your genetics?
the scale of your project is nothing short of amazing to me!
its one thing to build a stationary object big, but quite another to build one that is meant to not only move
but harness the power of nature and convert it into another form of power on this scale.
can't wait for the youtube clip!
what kind of pop rivets? you might want to go with steel rivets or stainless and an air power tool to set them.
bob g
Just edited my last post. With my past experience with a hand operated pop riveter I knew that I needed something much better for this big job. A while back Princess had a pneumatic pop riveter on sale and I bought one. It is awesome!!!!! First project I got to try it on was while making the radiator air box for my Changfa 1115 plant. This is such a pleasure to use let me tell you! Not often I get so emotionally happy with a new tool acquisition. :) :) :) :) I am using 1/8" steel pop rivets, one every 4 or 5 inches. There will be more than a thousand I think in all. The 3/16" ones were prohibitively more expensive and I think 1/8" will not only do the job but also act as a safety device in a freak severe storm that could save the machine by allowing the sheet metal panels to separate, leaving the structure mostly undamaged and repairable.
I don't know if I have Egyptian in my genes. Some Polish and Ukrainian yes.
We were discussing possible names for this beast earlier. What think ye of.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnaught
I like "Hippalectryon", if yer goin with a Greek Mythological Beast theme. Sorta like a horse crossed with a rooster.
It "flies", but has horsepower...the name suggests something that flies, and also something that converts horsepower to electricity...
But that's just me.
Quote from: cognos on April 14, 2011, 10:54:38 AM
I like "Hippalectryon", if yer goin with a Greek Mythological Beast theme. Sorta like a horse crossed with a rooster.
It "flies", but has horsepower...the name suggests something that flies, and also something that converts horsepower to electricity...
But that's just me.
I'm certainly open to name suggestions along Greek or Latin, etc. ancient mythology themes. Keep 'em coming.
Hi RCA,
How about Victor.
Henry
Quote from: hwew on April 14, 2011, 01:44:21 PM
Hi RCA,
How about Victor.
Henry
You suggested that already in post #45. Sorry, doesn't work for me.
JETFIRE
from the original transformers movie
he used to be a decepticon, big, massive and grouchy!
ya, that fits!
bob g
How about MOUSE ! ;D
veggie
Quote from: rcavictim on April 14, 2011, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: hwew on April 14, 2011, 01:44:21 PM
Hi RCA,
How about Victor.
Henry
You suggested that already in post #45. Sorry, doesn't work for me.
Whats wrong with Victor.
It fits with your Fourm Name.
If you don't like Victor than how about Nipper. :)
Since 1954, Nipper has stood watch above Broadway, a 25-foot, 4-ton homage to the RCA brand and a seemingly unique part of the Albany landscape.
Every morning driving to work I drove under that Puppy. Let me tell you that was some land mark.
Henry
Oh man. Can you imagine being the guy who cleaned the droppings off that roof? :D
Actually my forum name has nothing to do with wind power or tower construction, neither does the Victor or Nipper themes. I am looking for a name, possibly from ancient mythology, that gives a vision of an invincible machine, or something like a tall ship (wind and sails) made of steel, or perhaps something inkeeping with the green theme of renewable energy, or an incredible achievement in the pursuit of one man's lifelong dreams or contribution to Man's responsible treatment of our environment in the future.
Yesterday I thought of calling it "The Hard Part". That could be the label of that component in any overall system drawing and I could say, "Gee, I'm so glad the Hard Part is now finished!" I'm not going to use that but it was part of the thought process. I also considered the name "Fairweather Friend". By virtue of it's larger than normal size for a backyard DIY wind turbine it is expected to make more generous output than a normal size backyard DIY wind turbine when the winds are only marginal for wind production. That is the "fairweather" part and will be most welcomed. What I'm not looking forward to is the extreme anxiety that will happen every time a storm or extra high winds are happening. i.e in inclement weather, not a friend.
This naming thing is a process. Performance Yard Art, Model 1. 8)
How about "Gawdzilla"? Sort of a cross between the exclamation most people will make when seeing it, and it's similarity to a large green Tokyo-terrorising dinosaur...
If you want inspiration from the sea, how about this list of famous clipper ships:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_clipper_ships
Hi RCAV
OK. In your theme, kinnda', how about Paul Bunyan? Mythic, Big, Tall, Strong, un-topple-able, originated from the sea, very natural and an original "Green". Paul for short. Or, "Ho! Ho! Green Giant!" (the green bean vegetable man - not the helicopter) Want something less human? Then maybe Big Babe - for Paul's blue ox companion. Again mythic, Big, Strong, gentle, work forever, an unstoppable original "Green".
Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh
Maybe some play on the Colossus of Rhodes?
I agree, is big and green, must be Colossus
Yes, it's big. It's green.....
How about the JOLLY GREEN GIANT ! ;D
veggie
You guys crack me up. Is this the Forum that 'a funny thing happened on the way to?' How about Biggus Dickus? :D Just kidding, I wouldn't use that name. It is reserved for polititians and similar scum.
BlowJobTM ! The world's most dreamed about wind turbine.
Tired of paying outrageous power bills? You need a BlowJobTM !
You can get your best friend a BlowJobTM . Gift certificates available.
Which is better for you, a vertical axis BlowJobTM or a horizontal axis BlowJobTM ? Read our special report.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. :D
How about:
Big Vaner ;D
Release "The Craken".
R
Why does Frankenstein keep coming to mind? I wonder if they have lightening storms where it lives or not?
Casey
Sorry, was waiting for someone else to step up with this one.
Bulldozer.. .
. ..So in ancient Greek mythology, the Minotaur (or Centaur) was a creature with the head of a bull on the body of a man.
The vertical turbine could sure be the horns...
This creature was lured into a gigantic intricate labyrinth from which escape was impossible...
And the bull is still spinning in the labyrinth looking for an exit.
http://listsoplenty.com image 1 source
http://arizonascorpionchess.com/ image 2 source
Quote from: DanG on April 17, 2011, 02:04:07 PM
Sorry, was waiting for someone else to step up with this one.
Bulldozer.. .
. ..So in ancient Greek mythology, the Minotaur (or Centaur) was a creature with the head of a bull on the body of a man.
The vertical turbine could sure be the horns...
This creature was lured into a gigantic intricate labyrinth from which escape was impossible...
And the bull is still spinning in the labyrinth looking for an exit.
Not mythology Dan. Those showed up in Ukraine in the abandoned woods after Chernobl and have recently been sighted near the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan. Thanx for the suggestion but I'm looking for something else.
"Big-spinny-noisey-lightbulb-lighting-thingy"
Ohhhh cummon ! ....that's gotta be a winner ! ;D
veggie
how about
"mr. peobody"
;)
bob g
My wife and I vote for the "Blowjob". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Doesn't everyone like.....
Every man will appreciate it... and their women will be relieved...
I better quit now.
rm /
Been a while since I let you guys know how my Blowjob was going. Ha Ha! :D
I've gotten the four airfoils to the point of where the sheet metal skin gets riveted on and I have one done but I'm not happy with all the creases I got. Trouble is my sheet metal is in one continuous length four feet wide and it cannot follow compound curves. Despite my best effort to get all the ribs lined up this is just impossible to the tolerance that the sheet metal requires to go on smooth. Anyhow here are a few pictures.
For those who wanna seen naked skin! :o
HOLY COW it's big. no wonder it's taking you forever to do all that work. Great photos
I can't wait to see this thing up & running, it's going to be immense!
RCA - won't the worst of the creases hammer out using hammers/dollies? No-one will begrudge you a few dents & wrinkles once it's up in the air anyway...
Looks like you may need to cut overlapping pieces and rivet through them to the spars. Or wait for a good blow to stretch the the skin tight. What's your plan???
Quote from: Tom on July 24, 2011, 07:40:32 PM
Looks like you may need to cut overlapping pieces and rivet through them to the spars. Or wait for a good blow to stretch the the skin tight. What's your plan???
Tom,
Overlapping pieces with caulking gun adhesive in each splice where the rivets hold the skin to the ribs, that was in fact exactly what I was going to try on the second blade. I was trying today to get a hold of a local who has a large sheet metal shear and brake in his home workshop.
Pulsus Officium :D
Ron
Well I went and saw the fellow with the big shear and have arranged to do the cutting myself for a small fee. Now I need to get my **s into gear. I have not been able to get to work for a week now. I overdid it in that past heat wave and it shut me down...again.
Quote from: vdubnut62 on July 27, 2011, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: rcavictim on July 27, 2011, 06:51:59 AM
Quote from: vdubnut62 on July 27, 2011, 06:47:47 AM
Pulsus Officium :D
Ron
Huh?
Very loosely translated into Latin-"Blow Job". ;D
Ron
Oh OK. Very good. ;D
Say is that a vertical axis wind turbine in your pants or are you just glad to see me? :D
Quote from: rcavictim on July 28, 2011, 12:19:19 AM
Say is that a vertical axis wind turbine in your pants or are you just glad to see me? :D
Now that'd make your eyes water....
OK wise guys,
Enuff gay bantor and sexual inuendo jokes. Time to get back to serious bidness!
Last week I made a electric wire rope winch based portable crane jig that I can quickly attach to each of the four rotating arms and lift the airfoil blade from ground level to the installed position topside and install the bolt fasteners working all by myself! I did a test lift and bolted one blade into place took these photos and then removed the bolts and lowered the blade back to ground level. The lift system works like a charm. The last photo shows false color added with my new drawing tablet to see what the blade will look like when installed.
HI RCA
Its not often you can use the words "audacious" and "dogged" for the same project but both are apt here.
Not to be depressing but knowing the devil is in the details , at what percentage of completion do you think your at ?
As you have said , so many parts of this are major projects just by themselves.
I'd have given up at the building the ladder stage... ;D
Cheers for the pics
Keith
What an amazing project!
Any progress updates?
Years ago I made some airboat rudders out of almuninum ribs with sheet metal skin attached with pop rivets. Don't really have any construction tips to pass on. Those rudders were simple curves. I later repurposed the rudders into a motorcycle side car. Its as tough as hell. I wouldn't count on your blade skins flying off in a storm..
Finally, are you really building a wind generator? Or a wind-powered kill dozer?
Anyone that hasn't heard of the legendary kill dozer, do yourself a favor and look it up.
AKcrab,
I remember the build. Unfortunately rcavictim has not been on the forum since 2018. The topic is old.The last reply was in 2011. But it was a huge undertaking from one man. And, some of us wonder what became of it.
His health was not great either, I hope he's ok.