Injection pump fuel lift

[ArcticCogen]

Assuming the fuel line is suitably tight (and primed) will the pump on the Listeroid have any trouble drawing fuel up a couple of feet from a floor level tank?  I'm going to be running directly off of a 200 liter drum and I really don't want to elevate it or put another pump in the system if I don't have to.

Thanks in advance,
John

[BruceM]

An interesting question.  I know the Bosch Mico IP, once fully bled, does put enough suction on the line to cause problems with some solenoid fuel shut off valves.  Air bleeding would be impossible without some fuel pressure, I think.  If you could pressurize the tank with 2-3 psi for bleeding, it might work.  Hopefully some much more knowledgeable folks than I will chime in.

[ArcticCogen]

An interesting question.  I know the Bosch Mico IP, once fully bled, does put enough suction on the line to cause problems with some solenoid fuel shut off valves.  Air bleeding would be impossible without some fuel pressure, I think.  If you could pressurize the tank with 2-3 psi for bleeding, it might work.  Hopefully some much more knowledgeable folks than I will chime in.

You're right, I read that somewhere before too.  If a fuel cutoff valve will struggle to hold it against the pump suction then for sure it will lift a couple of feet out of a drum!  I'm planning to tee onto the fuel pump with the existing tank line.  Fuel return will still go to the existing tank and if I open the tank valve for a few seconds fuel should flow back towards the barrel to prime the line.

Thanks a lot!

[Ronmar]

You won't know till you try... It isn't a lift pump by intent, but it does push fuel and uses a check valve so the potential to pull fuel is there also.   Just make sure all your lines are tight, as it is way easier to keep fuel in a pressurized line than it is to keep air out of one under vacume.

[Tom Reed]

I'd really suggest raising the tank. Gravity is really persistent and any small leak in the hose will present you with a mystery air bubble in the system. We have a fire truck with a diesel auxiliary pump that is mounted about 6' above the fuel tank. It regularly needs the system bled and the darn pump fails at the worst possible times. This is a factory install too. I know it sucks, but nature really abhors a vacuum.

[mobile_bob]

+1 for either raising the tank, or putting on a lift pump

life is way to short to fight priming issues, which seem to rear their ugly head in the dark, when it is insanely cold, and your sick.

under those conditions the cold fuel is very difficult to get all the air out so that you can get a good prime without losing it.

the real problem as i see it, is the fact that the engine's of the sizes typical here, inject so little fuel at engine no load condition it is or rather can be a pain to prime and get all the air out under the best of circumstances.

at the very least i would be for moving the tank up to at least level to the injection pump, and would much prefer going above the injection pump.

after spending 36 years as a diesel mechanic, i can tell you that priming is probably the one thing that can cause enormous frustration, sometimes just a few tiny bubbles can be something you can fight for hours to get out in applications where the tank is very low and the lift pump is anything but perfect condition.

i remember very well a sterling truck with a mercedes 450hp engine that took my partner and i about 6 hours (12 man hours) to get bled out and running again after a simple filter change.

things like that will bring you to tears!

fwiw
bob g

[Ronmar]

Yep, The generator behind the grill of my neighbors bus/RV wouldn't stay running.  She had it to 2 different service centers and they would replace the filter, prime it, run it a bit, call it good and give her a bill.  She knew I worked with diesel generators so asked me to take a look.  Took me about 10 minutes with some LP air to determine the jumper hose on the top of the fuel tank in the middle of the bus(highest point in the system) had a fine split in it.  Took me about 15 more minutes to get to it and replace the section of rubber hose that had dried out and split.  Vacumes can really suck:) and will find the weakness in any system...

[vdubnut62]

Pressure pumps really don't like to pull suction. Ask anyone that has replaced a Bosch VE injection pump on a Cummins 5.9 due to a lift pump failure.
Ron.

[ArcticCogen]

life is way too short to fight priming issues, which seem to rear their ugly head in the dark, when it is insanely cold, and your sick.

Yeah, I can easily picture that scenario!  OK, we'll keep the stock fuel tank.  The main reason for thinking about lifting it was to be able to run direct from the drum but not have to worry about a leak dumping tens of gallons of fuel and overflowing the drip pan onto the wooden floor.  Target consumption of diesel or kero right now is only 2 litres a day so prob'ly not a big deal to fill the little tank once a week.

Thanks for all the great advice, I think I've actually read just about every single post here over the last couple of years.  Pics and descriptions to come when I get it all operational.

John

[BruceM]

A small DC transfer pump might make the job a lot easier.
I use a pneumatic diaphram type transfer pump to transfer from my 5 gallon travel cans to my 16 gallon main tank.  A permanent set up that eliminates a lot of fuss and muss, and the pump was an ebay used bargain.

[buickanddeere]

Don't count on any life what so ever. As previously stated use a gravity tank or some sort of lift pump. There are cheapo low volume, low pressure 12V electric pumps that can supply 2-3 psi through a filter to the injection pump and bypass the rest of the flow back to the tank. Keeps the fuel tank stirred up and filtered. coolant Heating of the fuel can be added  to keep the diesel from waxing the filters in the winter.

[Dualfuel]

There is also the option of using a day tank...a small elevated tank that you fill daily...the old school generator plants all had that.

[buickanddeere]

For cold weather use where there maybe bio-diesel or #2 summer fuel involved. Keeping the fuel circulating, filtered and  heated via the coolant or exhaust is vital.