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Messages - Westcliffe01

#1
Hi Bob.  Not too many postings here of late, but I do try to check in once a week.   For now I have a Deutz 3 cylinder genset from a lighting trailer like used on road construction.  Its about 5kW and water cooled, 1800rpm.  Good candidate for CHP except for the fact that its not a very common engine in the US.  Long term support could eventually become a problem.

I also have 2x Kubota Z482 motors, one of which is in a Semi truck APU package.  I believe that they belt drive the alternator in that configuration and run faster than 1800rpm, but I have yet to dig into it much.

The "subdivision" that I bought in, in Custer County Colorado sits a few miles off the highway and runs from 8000ft up to over 10k ft in elevation.  No utility power.  County population in summer about 3500 and in winter closer to 2000.  Too few people to pay for expanded utility infrastructure.  They have been fortunate that fiber internet was run along highways and this has enabled wireless internet providers to put up towers serving most of the area and thus providing relatively fast wireless internet access.

Its a good location for solar PV systems and also a good location for CHP since its a primarily heating based climate.  No need for AC, low humidity etc based on the altitude alone.  Its not unusual to be snowed in for weeks at a time, high drifts are common with wind that may be over 100mph a few times a year.

Im relocating from Michigan to Custer County this year.  Have a lot of basic work to do before I even get to building, fencing the property, putting in a gate and a driveway.  There are free range cattle in the area, over 350 of them so will have to be able to exclude them from the building site lest they trample everything.   Will be getting a septic put in, rules change means it now has to be done by a licensed installer.  Then after that I can set up a temporary bathroom / washroom with a temporary connection to the septic system.  At that point I could return the rented chemical toilet that is otherwise required by the sanitation dept.   

After that point and assuming I have made the 3 or 4 trips back and forth to MI to move all my equipment I will finally be able to begin with the building foundation.  Im hoping that I can get the slab poured prior to snow flying in October/November.  Then next spring I can frame and close in the main structure.

Perhaps you could recompile your list of what you have available in the way of low speed engines.  I would favor a couple of smaller gennys, which would give me a longer run time when they are actually needed, when the solar is not producing.  So far I have bought about 1.6kW worth of PV panels and I have 4x 75Ah 24V Lipo batteries.   So 7.2kWh of battery storage. This was intended to be the "construction phase" system.  Of course I have the Deutz 5kW genny as a backup in this phase.  I think I will be buying 12 more 370W panels to use in the system, that should give me another 4.4kW of solar generation and will no doubt force me to add significantly to my battery system.  My main battery load will be the solar refrigerator and freezer which need to run 24/7 and some lighting at night.

Im fairly confident that the solar PV array will support my daytime construction activities.  I plan to have a hot water storage tank for the CHP system providing between 1000 and 2000 gal of storage.  Heating in the final building will be via radiant pex pipes and doesnt require a very high water temperature to operate.  Main heating load is likely to be through a propane boiler, with any running of the CHP adding to that.  I will have vaporizing type diesel stoves for the living space, likely later adding a wood stove.   Once I have run the radiant heat system through a winter I will have a much better idea of the heat demand of the building and can then more appropriately size the hot water holding tank.

I could bring an engine hoist to help load things.  I dont have a forklift, but i do have a backhoe although that tends to consume most of the space on my gooseneck trailer when I move it.  Im sure we could work something out.
#2
Quote from: keith71 on February 14, 2024, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: Westcliffe01 on February 12, 2024, 07:22:44 PMIf there are any members on this board who have an idle Lister 6/1 or clone out there that I can press into service for a CHP system in Colorado, please drop me a line (PM) on this forum.

Thank you
Keith

What about Gary at DES in Kansas ? As of about 2 years ago he still had some 6/1 and a few 8/1. He is very well respected in the Lister clone and many other diesel engines.. Is also a fairly large parts stock for these engines.. Was not sure if you were aware of him or not?  Good luck on your project.. Ha, my name is Keith as well..

Does Gary have a website ?  I googled Kansas DES and all I found were government assistance websites ?  Kansas would be great, not too far from SE colorado.

Disregard, I did find the Diesel electric service website.  Have sent an email.
#3
Bob, do you have any more slow engines available for sale ?   I could probably pick up at your location.

Keith
#4
If there are any members on this board who have an idle Lister 6/1 or clone out there that I can press into service for a CHP system in Colorado, please drop me a line (PM) on this forum.

Thank you
Keith
#5
I have been putting together my solar PV system for use in spring on my off grid property.  Some things have changed, in fact one could say that everything has changed in off grid power since 2014 when I started buying components.

Back in 2014 I bought 6x 275W Canadian solar Mono panels.  They have an open circuit voltage of 39V
I bought a Midnite Solar Classic 200 charge controller, this can accept up to 200V DC from the solar array.

The new stuff I recently bought:
a 24V 4000W Sungoldpower low frequency inverter with 24V DC in, 240V Ac in from generator, 240V split phase AC output and capable of starting loads up to 12kW for 20 seconds.  Thus great for large air compressors or deep well pumps.  This unit was $896+ taxes, free shipping.

I bought 4x 24V LiFePO 75Ah batteries  thus will have 300Ah @ 24V nominal. This cost $1725 including sales tax and shipping to my door.

Finally today I bought a new solar charge controller that can accept up to 450V dc from the solar array.  Apparently I never did the math when I bought the original 200V charge controller  because my string of 6 panels in series comes to 234V and in cold weather this might go up to 250V so out of bounds for the voltage limit on the charge controller.  Now one can connect 3 in series x 2 strings in parallel but it adds complication because one then needs to fuse the individual panels because the array could feed power into a failed solar panel and cause a fire. 

So I went with:https://sungoldpower.com/collections/solar-charger-inverter/products/3000w-24v-solar-inverter-charger?variant=39675861893257
It was $509 + taxes and free shipping.

I have another $380 in 1/0 cable, crimp lugs for the cable, tools to cut cable and crimp the lugs, battery disconnect, solar array disconnect with circuit breaker, 175A fuse for the battery system, red and black busbars and finally an adjustable 0-30V regulated power supply to get the individual batteries to the same state of charge before they get connected.
#6
I had noticed that prices had gone way up and fewer listings because much land has been bought by real estate investment companies.  Same in CO and I guess many other places.
#7
The closing went smoothly.  Title insurance this time around was only $76 whereas it was quoted over $750 on the previous purchase which failed.  Closing costs were under $500.   

Knowing that I will be working until mid July before I can relocate, then allowing a month for driving 4 major loads from MI to CO at 2600 miles round trip and about 1 week each, I have had to re-think what I will be building in what is left of the building season, getting started mid August.   I went onto the Menards project center and used their "design a garage" tool and after a few iterations I settled on a 32'x40' configuration.  One can only use "standard" roof trusses in the design tool, but it certainly allows one to get an idea of the material costs that go into the shell of a building.

Here is the spec in the quote:
Picture


 Building Info
Building Location Zip Code:   49201
Building Width:   32'
Estimate includes selection of prebuilt trusses with overhangs to trim to size.
Building Length:   40'
Building Height:   8'
Curb:   Poured Curb
Curb Height:   4"
Foundation Type:   Thickened Slab
Wall Framing Stud:   2 x 6
Roof Framing:   Truss Construction
Truss Type:   Common
Roof Pitch:   4/12 Pitch
Eave Overhang:   18"
Gable Overhang:   24"
Custom Garage Plan:   No I do not need a custom building plan
Wall Info
Siding Material Types:   Through Fastener Steel Panel (Pro-Rib)
Through Fastener Steel Siding:   Cut to Length Pro-Rib® Steel Panel, Color: Beige
Steel Corner Trim Color:   Beige
Accent Material Type:   Through Fastener Steel Panel (Pro-Rib)
Through Fastener Accent:   Cut to Length Pro-Rib® Steel Panel, Color: Beige
Endwall A Accent:   yes add gable accent
Endwall B Accent:   yes add gable accent
Wainscot Material Type:   None
Wall Sheathing:   5/8 x 4 x 8 Plywood
House Wrap:   Typar House Wrap 9' x 100'
Gable Vents:   None
Roof Info
Roof Sheathing:   5/8 x 4 x 8 Plywood
Roofing Material Type:   Through Fastener Steel Panel
Through Fastener Steel Roofing:   Cut to Length Pro-Rib® Steel Panel, Color: Beige
SnowBar Trim:   None
Roof Underlayment:   #30 Felt Roofing Underlayment 3' x 72' (216 sq. ft.)
Ice and Water Barrier:   Hydraguard Dual Pro High Temperature Ice & Water Barrier 39-3/8" x 61' (200 sq. ft.)
Fascia Material Type:   Steel Fascia
Fascia:   12' Steel L-6 Fascia, Color: Beige
Soffit Material Type:   Steel Soffit
Soffit:   Steel Vented Soffit Panel, Color: Beige
Gutter Material Type:   Heavy Duty Aluminum
Gutter:   Spectra Metals 5" x 16' K-Style Heavy-Duty Aluminum Gutter, Color: White
Openings
Service Door:   Mastercraft® 36W x 80H White Smooth Fiberglass 6-Panel Composite Frame
Service Door:   Mastercraft® 36W x 80H White Smooth Fiberglass 6-Panel Composite Frame
Windows:   34"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Double Hung
Windows:   34"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Double Hung
Windows:   60"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Slider
Windows:   60"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Slider
Windows:   60"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Slider
Windows:   48"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Slider
Windows:   48"W x 48"H JELD-WEN® Vinyl Slider
Additional Options
Ceiling Insulation:   Blow-in Fiberglass
Ceiling Insulation R Value:   R49 EcoFill WX Fiberglass Blown-in Insulation
Wall Insulation:   None
Ceiling Finish:   5/8 x 4 x 8 Type X Fire-Rated Drywall
Wall Finish:   5/8 x 4 x 8 Type X Fire-Rated Drywall
Mounting Blocks:   No
Hydronic Radiant Heat:   Yes
Heat Source:   None
Anchor bolt:   Grip Fast® 1/2 x 10 HDG Anchor Bolt w/ Nut & Washer
Framing Fasteners:   Grip Fast® 3-1/4 16D Vinyl-Coated Smooth Shank Sinker Nail - 5 lb. Box
Sheathing Fasteners:   Grip Fast® 2-1/2 8D Vinyl-Coated Smooth Shank Sinker Nail - 5 lb. Box
Truss Fastener:   FastenMaster® TimberLOK® 5/16 x 6 Hex Drive Black Hex Head Timber Screw - 50 Count

Seems a pretty modest package price for a 1280 sq foot building shell.  Internal framing, concrete slab and all the rest will have to be added.  But this represents the point that Im trying to reach before snow flies next winter...  I will not be using the conventional trusses as shown, it will be a modified mono truss.  In other words a shed style roof sloping to one side.  Instead of the high side being vertical, it will incline back at 30 degrees off the vertical and provide a surface to mount the solar panels at an angle ideal for winter sun.  Usually on summer days one has a surplus of solar power and cant do anything with it whereas in winter one needs all the power one can get and then some.   The single slope means a single gutter, feeding a 5000 gal buried cistern which at a later date will be connected to the well, once I can afford that $30k expense.

Concrete in Custer County is about 60% more expensive than the national average at $211/yard so it would be about $3000 for the slab + labor for pouring and finishing which I have no local quote for at this stage.  I will be using rockwool insulation in the wall cavities since it has superior fire resistance, but the roof insulation will be R50 blown in fiberglass.  The attic insulation is already in the quote, the wall insulation not.  I will be sheathing the interior walls with 5/8" plywood prior to drywall and all sheathing will be glued and screwed for a very strong structure.  The same with the roof sheathing which will be 3/4" plywood.   In the kitchen area I am likely to do 3/4" ply sheathing under the drywall for ease in mounting kitchen cabinets.  One can basically put a screw anywhere and it will hold.   My pet peeve trying to hang kitchen cabinets when there is 24" center to center of the studs...  The same applies to shelves and anything else one might want to to attach to walls later...  Elk antlers and the like...
#8
General Discussion / Re: changing the forum ideas?
September 30, 2023, 10:46:19 PM
With the green energy and electrification push, I think grid problems like have been plaguing South Africa for 15 years are going to be appearing across states in the US.  Im moving to an off grid property myself so wont have the comfort of utility power but that utility power is going to be less reliable and faulting out more frequently as time goes on because no-one seems to be adding to base load power generation.   

When the big snow storm or ice storm, or wind storm comes through its going to take the renewables offline for the utilities (self preservation mode and for photovoltaic buried by snow or ice). I had power taken out 3x this past year by a single tree that dropped various parts of its structure onto power lines in stages.  Its pretty much done now but plenty more that could do the same waiting in the wings.

The EPA has killed the old slow speed diesels and driven up the price of modern diesels to crazy levels.  Today one is looking at $7k+ for a small diesel generator, open frame.  Add fuel tank and enclosure and the price goes up.   I have scoured craigslist and marketplace listings for diesel engines for years and was able to score a 6kW Deutz 3 cylinder generator from a lighting plant (needs a different governor) and a 2 cylinder Kubota Mini engine (used) so I have something to work with. 

I will definitely be doing heat recovery from the Deutz system and the shop I will start building next year in Colorado will have a radiant heat system in the shop floor.  So I have a large area that will need heating and Im sure I will be running the generator often enough to keep the batteries happy.  Speaking of which, I am going to need a 48V battery pack.  I am thinking about buying Tesla battery moodules, the ones I saw were 48V.   Does anyone have feedback ?   I dont think I am going to bother with lead acid at this point.
#9
After the big disappointment we cooled our heels for a while.  Then a nice square lot 1300x1300 (36 acres) came up and we made an offer less than the asking price but $5k more than the last one and the offer was accepted.  Should close in 2 weeks and one of my big final adventures is going to start.  Due to some changes made by the companys new owners, our bonuses now get paid at end of June instead of at the end of March.  I guess we have to wait 6 months instead of 3 to get the prior years bonus now...  probably the same as all the other creditors...  So I can only give notice and end of June and start relocating in mid July....  So I am guessing that getting the septic system in and footings and a slab is all I am likely to get done before the end of the building season.
#10
I dont know, hardly looks desolate to me and that of course is part of the problem...You cannot view this attachment.
#11
I have been intending to buy some land in southern CO for some time.  Custer County, small community, 3500 people over summer, down to 1700 in the winter.  35 acre lots were in the $23k range for years and years.  Since the pandemic/lockdown enough people from California / NY state arrived that every available building lot was sold several times and prices eventually topped out well over $120k for the same lots.  For a while I gave up on the dream altogether and started looking at alternates.  Even rural TN has seen the number of lots listed drop month over month and prices that were in the $40k climb higher and higher to the $80-90k on average.

Just recently my wife found a lot for sale back in Custer county at a price that we could actually afford and had the money ready to go.  3 days before closing date, after our offer was accepted and earnest money paid we got a call that the seller had missed a mortgage payment and her mortgage company had shut down the sale...  Back to square one again...

Anyone else have any recent stories ?
#12
General Discussion / Re: LEF forum down
August 05, 2023, 05:43:48 PM
Sorry to be dumb, but I cant find a relevant "LEF Forum" using google.   How about posting a link ?
#13
Tom, I have been living that situation for over 30 years already, but my ability to earn an income is going to depend on me having a shop and fixing other peoples cars.  I dont think a true retirement is going to be on the cards for many of us.   Therefore I am going to be spending the proceeds of the sale of my house on getting the shop and she is free to save as much as she wants to get the sort of house she wants...  Doing something with other peoples money is a game.  No way I am commuting to a corporate job any more...
#14
Tom, my young wife will probably hang back in MI for a few more years to save up for the kind of house that she wants.  We own a second smaller house that we bought as an abandoned repossession, 100yo with plaster and lath interior, no insulation, the old asbestos insulated wire strung between ceramic posts.  We spent 3 years renovating that place and she owns it free and clear so she can sell that and take the proceeds towards her home budget.   

At least when we start the "real" house we wont be camping in a trailer on the back 40...
#15
I made the mistake of buying a house in Michigan in 2006 that has essentially trapped me in the state for about the following 14 years because I was upside down on the mortgage / home valuation from my second month of home ownership to more or less 2020...

Finally I am in a position where there is an actual housing shortage (after 14 years of no building) and where house prices have been appreciating.  Given the passage of time, I have been renovating the house because all the appliances, furnace, water heater etc needed to be replaced since they were all at end of life.  In addition I have done a strip to the studs of the master bath and rebuild since it was a case of using very expensive materials with extremely poor execution.   Now I'm into a total kitchen renovation which started with removing all the cabinets, chipping up the tile floor, pulling up the cement board and preparing for new wall to wall tile.   I also am laying new tile in a basement room that used to be carpeted.  And I resurfaced the deck and paid to get some large and dangerous trees removed after we had a tree fall on the roof last year and that forced the replacement of all the shingles and ice shield.   So the new owner should have few worries for a long time given all the work I have put into it and I have not used contractors.

Now I am looking to get out of our high property tax, most outrageous car insurance state that is MI.  I live in a rural community of Napoleon MI which has a median household income of about $46k and here I pay $4k property tax a year on my 1300 sq ft house sitting on 1/3 of an acre on a dirt road.  My homeowners insurance is $2400/yr.  Car insurance is $3600/yr for 3 cars that all have over 135k miles and the newest is a 2013.   Im looking to move to an unincorporated part of TN and buy as much land as I can afford in the woods.  My budget is between $40k-$90k at the top end.  I plan to build a 40'x64' shop with a small living space along one of the 40' end walls.  Buy a pole barn KIT from one of the big box stores and have a local contractor put up the shell.  Once it is dried in then I will get to work on the build out. 

It will have a heated slab and the living space will have its own loops so it can be regulated separate from the shop space.  The interior walls will be sheathed in plywood and steel liner panel then applied to that so that it is easy to hang anything off the walls without needing to find a stud or girt.  The sheathing should also improve the racking strength of the structure and go a long we to helping seal it up against bugs and other critters.  Of course it will add some cost.   So far I have not made a decision on the primary doors.  So far I have found the pannelised doors to leak too much air and move around in the wind so still considering my options.  I would ideally like a one piece door that can seal effectively when it is closed.   I need to give some thought as to letting light in.  The method that a lot of barns have used is to have clear panels at the upper end of the walls seems to be effective, its just a question of getting something that integrates well with the exterior metal.

So what do you guys think ?  Big shop, small living space.  Plenty of flat concrete to pre-fabricate parts of the main house which would be built later.  Keeping material out of the weather etc.  So far Menards has given a quote for a material kit for the shell at about $35k and it seems that hiring a crew to put it up would run another $15k.  Thoughts ?