Another Engine Control and Regulator project - DC Alternator

[thomasonw]

...   If you don't mind, who did your board and what price?
.....

Bruce,  Thanks.  I ended up using Advanced Circuits, and specificly their $33/board special: http://www.4pcb.com/33-each-pcbs/index.html for 2 sided board up to 60 sq-in.  (They also do 4-layer PCBs for $66)

Now, it is a bit misleading as though the price per board is $33, one needs to purchase 4 of them!  (So, if anyone wants an extra board to play with, let me know - else they will become Green Coasters  )  In the end, the total cost was $149.92, including S&H.

I had looked at other venders, and some promising ones included:
   6.4 x 5.1 = 32.64sq. in.   /   163 x 130mm - Note this was only the main PCB, did not include the remote PCB

   PCB Express = $217 (2x boards min.)
   SunStone    = $122.92
   BatchPC      = $91.60 ** Lowest Price 1pc **

   *** Silvtronics    = $102,  plus $12/extra PCBs - Includes full Elec Check! (Mylasia) ****

   Sunstone  = $123 (Oregon)
   PurPCB =$95  ($5/extra PCB)
   Gold Phoenix PCB = $100
   

=================================

As I am sure you know one-offs are always expensive.   I ended up selecting Advanced Circuits over some of the other options (ala Batch PCB, and Silvertronics) mostly do to a combination of lots of good recommendations I found when doing Google, and also - to be honest - their $33 deal.  Even though it cost me a bit more due to requiring 4x boards, if one is going to school (and has a .edu email address) they drop this 4x requirement.  http://www.4pcb.com/pcb-student-discount.html  I kind of like that (and told the sales lady the same when she called me) - their support of students in this way is what tipped my decision.  Do wish I could have order them with tin-lead plating as opposed to lead-free. (Just solders so much nicer - and stores better as well).  But alas, that seems to be going away quickly.  (And I could have gotten tin-lead plating, but not under the $33 deal).   

I did need to do the CAD work to merge the two separate PCBs into one board submitted to them, but even I had no issues figure out how to do that in KiCAD.  Hence the odd-shape - hack saw and file made quick resolution.

PCBs look fine, hope to start some assemble this week.

Should also point out their free automated design checker - it picked up several issues in the gbr files and I found that useful (even if I had not placed the order with them)

I am also intrigued by batchPCB.com - esp for small one-off boards - their approach and cost are very reasonable (flat $2.50 / sq-in)  and I will likely use them in the future for smaller PCBs (smaller in physical size)

-al-

 

[BruceM]

Thanks for the good info on PCB vendors, William!  I'll check them out.

[mobile_bob]

will any of these pc board guys take an existing board and reproduce it?

the reason i am asking is one of my boards has been discontinued by the oem
and i am sure i could get them to ok me having it replicated.

the other board is made in china, and i (like them) really am not concerned with copy infringement issues.

just curious

bob g

[thomasonw]

I have no idea about backing out an existing PCB to replicate it.  I would think they would need to re-CAD it is some way to end up with the appropriate layer files.    Perhaps this would be a two-step process - get someone to regenerate the CAD drawings, and then use one of these companies to fab the board?

Are these two boards of yours large and complex?

-al-

[yellowhead]

Now, it is a bit misleading as though the price per board is $33, one needs to purchase 4 of them!  (So, if anyone wants an extra board to play with, let me know - else they will become Green Coasters  )  In the end, the total cost was $149.92, including S&H.

[/quote]

I'd be happy to take on of those extra boards off your hands for $33 (or more for that matter since I couldn't get a one off for that I've been following your project with interest and at some point I expect to be trying something very similar. What you have is close enough to what I need so that using your board would put me way ahead of assembling it from regular Arduino boards and shields.

[mobile_bob]

one board is double sided about 2.2" x 2.2" , half of which is prototype area

the other is about 4 x 5" double sided, it has 8 relays spst, a 2x8 female idc socket
, 8 led's, resistors, and not much else, maybe a diode for polarity protection.

now that i think about it, i might have the art files for the boards, that would probably do it?

bob g

[SPSInc]

Hi Bob,

I might be able to help you out. I layout PCBs on a fairly regular basis. Do you have a schematic of the boards? Doesn't appear to have too much on them.

I've used Advance Circuits a lot. The $33 special is good but their "Barebones" special is great if you can live without a soldermask and silkscreen. Take a look a Imgineering Inc. (pcbnet.com). They have some good prototype specials too.

Eric

[thomasonw]

I'd be happy to take on of those extra boards off your hands for $33 (or more for that matter since I couldn't get a one off for that I've been following your project with interest and at some point I expect to be trying something very similar. What you have is close enough to what I need so that using your board would put me way ahead of assembling it from regular Arduino boards and shields.

Yellow Head, you are more then welcome to a board - and if you want to pass on the cost, that is fine as well 

What all is your project?  Somewhere in the back of my mind I had thought this effort might become a basis for a basic engine controller for folks, and hence I tried to make things a bit more generic when making choices.

Drop me an email at mvVikingStar@gmail.com and we can set up the details.  And if you have time, perhaps it would be best to  hang tight for a few weeks till I bring one of these up and see if they even work!

-al-

[thomasonw]

<SNIP>

now that i think about it, i might have the art files for the boards, that would probably do it?

bob g

Bob,  if you have the layers artwork, I think that is mostly what is required.  Are they in electronic form?  If so, you likely are good to go!   Even if you use a different vendor, perhaps running them through the Advanced Circuits design checker app would clear things up quickly.

-al-

[yellowhead]

Yellow Head, you are more then welcome to a board - and if you want to pass on the cost, that is fine as well 

What all is your project?  Somewhere in the back of my mind I had thought this effort might become a basis for a basic engine controller for folks, and hence I tried to make things a bit more generic when making choices.

Drop me an email at mvVikingStar@gmail.com and we can set up the details.  And if you have time, perhaps it would be best to  hang tight for a few weeks till I bring one of these up and see if they even work!

-al-

I have a Changfa R175 belted to a Leece-Neville 555 (picture attached I hope) and I'm planning to use it to charge a 48V battery bank based on the work done by mobile_bob (thanks bob!)

I was originally going to run the thing fast at full field and let my solar charge controller take care of the battery regulation. But the idea of matching engine speed to load is appealing as is removing the charge controller from the charging path. This allows me to supplement whatever is coming through the charge controller to handle 'big loads' as well as providing a bit of backup if the charge controller should ever fail.

I've dabbled with the Arduino before; seeing your project made it an easy choice. Thanks so much for sharing it. I think it will make a great basis for a general alternator based charge controller. Having a single board that does 90% of what I need seemed like too good an opportunity to pass up.

[thomasonw]

Well, I could not stand it any more - despite a PILE of other things to do I had to start playing with this project.  Last night I soldered in most the Big Stuff:



And today hope to make more progress with the SMD's.  Still am not looking forward to the INA-220's, despite being wonderful little devices - they look littler and littler to me each time I peak at the PCB traces. . . .

Have not discovered too many problems so far, but of course there are some - though they are easily corrected.  And will also add:  "Yellowhead" and I have been talking off line on how to use this with his 48v DC generator.  So far looks rather doable, providing the alternator still uses a 12v field.

Will post more here when I get the rest of the board set up, and if folks want more blow-by-blow details I am trying to keep them here:

http://smartdcgenerator.blogspot.com/search/label/Status



-al-

[BruceM]

Sorry about your LCD misalignment, William.  I think it's one of those laws of nature that 1st cut PCB art work is never perfect.  I know mine sure aren't!

I was wondering what you're using for hand SMD work...Chipquick?  I have avoided SMDs but it's looking more and more impossible to avoid.

[thomasonw]

  I have avoided SMDs but it's looking more and more impossible to avoid.

Bruce, thanks for the continued encouragement.  Yes, SMD parts are just so common these days - you will note I used good old fashon Through Hole parts where I could. . .  But I wonder if they will go the way of lead plating. . . .

On Soldering the SMD parts, I am 1st tinning the pads with leaded solder, then placing the part and tacking one lead.  After checking, tacking the rest.  Along the lines of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY

However, I have no mag glass, and have been using the camera in 'micro focus' mode to take photos then enlarge them on the computer to see my progress. And of course I need to time my efforts between the ferry runs as the ferry dock is right next where we are moored for the winter.    Perhaps tomorrow I will skip caffeine and tackle the INA-220!  But 1st I need to finish up with the passives and test the 5-volt switcher, this is my 1st switching PS and I relied A LOT on the app notes.  So . . . .

And thanks for the lead on Chipquick, seems an interesting product.  But perhaps more to aid removal then initial install?

(Notice I am passing over the LCD thing.  Oh Well, if that was the the only time in life something went a little wrong    )

-al-

[BruceM]

Thanks for the u-tube link.  I remember that video now.  The video makes it look easy, but I didn't see the soldering iron shaking over a half inch area like mine does. 

You'll definitely want steady seas.  Good luck, and let us know how it goes.  Victory to the bold!

[mike90045]

On Soldering the SMD parts, I am 1st tinning the pads with leaded solder, then placing the part and tacking one lead.  After checking, tacking the rest.  Along the lines of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY 

That's the way I do it too.  I have a PCB pattern and parts list for a 48V- 12V board, that handles a couple hundred watts, if anyone wants the gerber file.   slide show here. http://www.naturalstudies.org/Photo_galleries/LED_driver/


Distributing 48v is much less lossy, than trying to run hundreds of watts via 12V