Does gasoline remain dissolved in waste oil blend diesel fuel?

[beyond biodiesel]

There seems to be some confusion as to the mechanism that distributes the components throughout the medium of a solution.

A demonstration of diffusion as used in blending waste oils into diesel fuel
http://youtu.be/gTktwNRFjjE

[d34]

Interesting video.  Thanx!

[Tom Reed]

I have done a similar test with WVO had RUG mix. The products stayed mixed beautifully until it got cold, then a solid layer of "fat" settled on the bottom of the container. This happened after about 6 months of being mixed. Even after being exposed to 100+f ambient temps the settled layer did not go back into solution. It was at this point that I decided that blended WVO was not going to work in my engine because it is only run during the winter to charge batteries.

I messed up the fuel system of my backhoe pretty good with this blend. I ended up having to completely drain the tank and then heating it with a weed burner so the "fat" would drain out. I did run the listeroid on this blend during the construction of our house and it did work well, until the weather turned cold. I then encountered some minor starting problems. I think the listeroid avoided the problem because the fuel tank was bolted to the engine so it was both heated and agitated.

[LowGear]

I enjoyed your video.  I checked out a couple more and decided that I throw a lot of stuff away that I don't need to.  It's really a pain in the back to poke saw dust down cubies getting them ready for the dump.  I'll experiment with your cleaning concept.  That turkey gravy crap can actually be turned into a burnable WVO product that is safe to run in my beloved truck?

Hi cognos,

PETF is a good example of this, don't use containers made of PETF (like water/juice bottles) to mix or store hydrocarbons. Never a good idea anyway, as every year, plenty of people are hospitalised for grabbing what they thought was a nice refreshing drink of water or juice or pop, and getting something else...

This is how I found out that used brake fluid doesn't taste as good as Pepsi-Cola.  Luckily I wasn't chugging it and spit it out before the tonsil test.  I'm a lot more careful about what the container looks like I store crap in.  The gas can with the gas-diesel cleaning solution has a duct tape flag made from red and yellow strips.  OK!  I don't drink my Pepsi from gas cans - even plastic ones.  In fact, I've evolved to where I only get one Coke a month.  Wait a minute, it's the 15th and I have done my soft drink for February yet.  We are what we drink!

Casey

[DanG]

Just a foot note from shed-logic research department - juice bottles & the like, laundry detergent bottles etc - may hold up to solvents but the spouts/caps/drain-back-cones usually aren't pleased. (Also - I saw this just yesterday, if you're visiting my dang shed-logic R&D center avoid the pretty pink Lexus complimentary bottled water with the neat nozzles - it's stump killer that the poison labels fell off of... )

[Tom Reed]

The long term test was blended in a pop bottle and left on a shelf in an unheated storage container. I wanted to understand what happened on the backhoe. In your video you claimed a WVO/RUG blend would not separate. My experiment proves they do. So I'm calling BS.

[veggie]

Hi all,

In the blending tests that I have done with WVO and 25% RUG I was not able to get any separation to occur after sitting for 6 months. Now, that does not mean I am making a blanket statement for all blenders because the base stock probably has a lot to do with it. So I am careful not to make a "blending rule" from my findings.
At the same time, I feel confident sharing my findings because I don't get blasted from people who disagree experience.
It's all just information that you can take...or leave.

Firstly, I would like to emphasize to all members that what works for one person may not work for another, so be careful about making blanket rules about blending processes and success rates.

on the flip side....

Secondly, lets let everyone share their experiences without the fear of being shot down.
Nobody is forcing us to use other peoples opinions or experiences.
If you like what you read, then use it. If not, leave it for others to decide if it's useful or not.

cheers all,
veggie

[bschwartz]

My completely unscientific beliefs are that the stock is THE most important component of this situation.  I use ONLY Non-hydrogenated canola WVO from a restaurant that does not fry anything with fat (french frys, fish, skinless chicken).  I have NEVER under any circumstances seen any solids precipitate into a layer.  The only solids in my stock are the food particles that come out with the paper cone filters, and centrifuge.  My fuel (straight WVO) will become solid at around 10 degrees F.  In my one tank Mercedes, in the winter, I do add about 15-20% RUG (self mixed in the tank).  I have NO IDEA what it looks like in there, but as I have not clogged a fuel filter in 8000 miles, I suspect nothing is stratifying into layers that resemble fat.

All this as only my experience, and belief that fuel stock is EVERYTHING when it comes to blending fuels.

[Tom Reed]

Yes it must be the stock, because what I was using (and still have about 100 gals) is hydrogenated soy oil that was use once for a salmon fish fry. It is a semi-solid at room temp. But it does mix with RUG beautifully and sat there on the shelf for months, until it got cold. It also gummed up the rack on the IP.

[beyond biodiesel]

The long term test was blended in a pop bottle and left on a shelf in an unheated storage container. I wanted to understand what happened on the backhoe. In your video you claimed a WVO/RUG blend would not separate. My experiment proves they do. So I'm calling BS.

Yes it must be the stock, because what I was using (and still have about 100 gals) is hydrogenated soy oil that was use once for a salmon fish fry. It is a semi-solid at room temp. But it does mix with RUG beautifully and sat there on the shelf for months, until it got cold. It also gummed up the rack on the IP.

OK, Tom, so instead of accusing me of posting BS, we just need to understand why your sample produced a precipitate when it got cold; whereas mine does not.  You have not told us how cold it got, nor do we know where you are.

My sample of well settled canola WVO blended at 20% with gasoline (petrol) does not produce a precipitate and remains liquid down to 0f (-18c).  Whereas with more information from you, we now know that your sample was hydrogenated soy oil that was used once for a salmon fish fry; and it is a semi-solid at room temp. 

So, we are hardly talking about the same experiment.  I am actually surprised that you were able to dissolve your hydrogenated soy oil into gasoline (petrol) at all, because all samples of hydrogenated oil that I have tried will not dissolve into any petroleum distillate.  So, perhaps you were just a little too hasty to accuse me of BS, like some other people on this forum.

[beyond biodiesel]

Some people believe that differing specific gravities between two fluids in a solution will prevent them from miscibility.  Here are 14 Videos that demonstrate the diffusion of various solvents into waste vegetable oil (WVO), which should collapse that belief system.

Blending Solvents with Vegetable Oil to make diesel fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swedNqY23jk

Blending lacquer thinner with vegetable oil to make Diesel Fuel (WOBDF)
http://youtu.be/XbopU_Xo3mM

Blending MEK with vegetable oil to make Diesel Fuel (WOBDF)
http://youtu.be/ZyD0-oFeQYo

Blending gasoline with vegetable oil to make diesel fuel II
http://youtu.be/wVec28qRS-U

Blending Turpentine with vegetable oil to make diesel fuel I
http://youtu.be/GnUsbeVsSew

Blending Xylol (xylene) with Vegetable Oil to Make Diesel Fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmf_rFU7v4E

Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/4QnXI_PYvhA

Blending acetone with vegetable oil to make Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/Pqpo4SrVi6A

Blending Lamp Oil with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/h0kNrW7K0rE

Blending Coleman Fuel with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwmPvDLZUjs

Blending Naptha with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/iJMzTZoBCu4

Blending citrus oil with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHrSeMv-ibE

Blending paint thinner with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/e9xfsDQ8JM0

Blending Kerosene with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
http://youtu.be/Y5JpqUDRUW0

[Curbie]

beyond biodiesel,

Have you tested either the specific gravity or viscosity of these solutions to compare them to diesel?
Have you compared the volatility of these solutions to diesel? 

Interesting videos.

thanks,

Curbie

[beyond biodiesel]

beyond biodiesel,

Have you tested either the specific gravity or viscosity of these solutions to compare them to diesel?
Have you compared the volatility of these solutions to diesel?  

Interesting videos.

thanks,

Curbie

Thanks, Curbie, yes, I have done a series of tests with specific gravity and viscosity for various blends of new canola and new 10/40 motor oils.  I found new canola and new 10/40 motor oils behave almost identically when blended with gasoline, and it takes gasoline at 50% in either oil to get the blend to have the same specific gravity and viscosity of diesel fuel.  However, driving tests on my 6.2L Detroit Diesel shows that 15% gasoline matches the driving characteristics of diesel fuel; however, I prefer more pep in my fuel, and I find it in 20-30% gasoline blends.

I have not compared volatility of blends verses D2.  I would expect D2 to have a longer shelf-life, than a blend; however, I know from experience that my fuel blends are good for at least a month, most probably longer.  If the fuel blend is kept in a cool shady place with a pressurized fuel cap, then it should be good for months. Waste oils otherwise have a long shelf life of years, longer than D2, so one could always blend the gasoline with the waste oil that is going to be used within a few months of blending and one should not notice significant fuel loss or thickening.

[Curbie]

beyond biodiesel,

Thanks, Curbie, yes, I have done a series of tests with specific gravity and viscosity for various blends of new canola and new 10/40 motor oils.

Does your tests show a direct relationship between specific gravity and viscosity, or am I reading that incorrectly???
Do you use pre-heated fuel to try to further equalize the viscosity of the blend with that of diesel???

Thanks,

Curbie

[beyond biodiesel]

beyond biodiesel,

Thanks, Curbie, yes, I have done a series of tests with specific gravity and viscosity for various blends of new canola and new 10/40 motor oils.

Does your tests show a direct relationship between specific gravity and viscosity, or am I reading that incorrectly???
Do you use pre-heated fuel to try to further equalize the viscosity of the blend with that of diesel???

Thanks,

Curbie

Curbie, I find reductions in specific gravity and viscosity due to blending gasoline (petrol) with waste oils parallel each other; however, the relationship is not linear, such that while the viscosity might be spot on, the specific gravity will not be, so I look to viscosity as the primary measurement; however, measuring viscosity is expensive, if you purchase a calibrated viscup, or visgage.  I have both.  hydrometers are much cheaper, but they are made of glass, so they are easily broken.  If you break 8 hydrometers, then you just bought yourself a calibrate viscup.  Home made viscups tend to be problematic, because just poking a hole in a pop bottle, and calibrating it with diesel fuel does  not necessarily equal a reliable instrument.  Apparently if the hole is too big, or too small, then the measurements are not reliable.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, making the specific gravity and viscosity of your blend equal to diesel fuel does not seem to be necessary, because waste oil blends containing gasoline (petrol) at 15-20% seem to perform like diesel fuel.

While specific gravity and viscosity are temperature dependent, which means if you are going to measure the specific gravity and viscosity of your blend then you will need to precisely measure the temperature of your sample; nonetheless, heating a blend containing gasoline (petrol) at 15-20% over 120F (50c) can lead to vapor-lock, so if you are going to heat your blend to reduce your need for gasoline (petrol) in your blend, then either keep the temperature of your blend before the lift pump below 120F (50c) and/or reduce the content of gasoline (petrol) in your blend to 10% or less.  The temperature of the blend in the positive pressure side of your fuel system is not relevant, except if you have a PSD engine, which has a low-pressure common rail.  In this case gasoline (petrol) in your blend at 15% is max.