WVO Mixed With Diesel

[LowGear]

I had a fellow helping me today with my WVO separation program.  He dumped about four gallons of diesel into my separating drum (55 gallon).  Can I still process this mixture into biodiesel?  If I wait a few days will it move up to the top of the drum where I can pull it off?

Casey

[cognos]

Although I can't say for sure, if the diesel/WVO has been mixed at all, it's unlikely that the diesel will "float" to the surface and be available for skimming.

As far as processing the mix into BD, I have no expertise or experience of the process you're using or chemistry, and therefore no opinion. Just be aware that diesel has a flash point of around 125°F, so if there's any heat involved in the processing, and it gets above that, you will be evolving gas, and could inadvertently create an explosive mixture.

[veggie]

No....and No

1 - My blending experiments have shown very little separation after months of observation.

2 - Petroleum Diesel fuel will really mess up your biodiesel reaction.
BD reacting is a process of separating fatty acids from biological sources.
Eg: animal fats or plant oils.

Diesel fuel or water will greatly interfere with the reaction process.

Veggie

[mbryner]

Heck, I don't know anything WVO, but can't you just centrifuge it or heat it and still burn it in a Listeroid even though it has diesel mixed in, just like thinning WMO?

[LowGear]

The bad news just gets worse.  I don't want to run this "lessor" WVO as a thinned refined WVO.  The "good stuff" doesn't go through this settlement drum.  I guess this will be "the test" for the oil cleaner system.

Casey

[Thob]

Sounds like you just made a batch of furnace fuel.  I suspect you don't need much heat, so now you need to build a furnace for casting metal.  There are several kinds of DIY oil burners for metal melting furnaces, and they burn vegetable oil, motor oil, diesel, kerosene, etc.  You don't have to worry about ruining an engine if you burn it in a furnace - you just sweep any ashes out of the furnace when you prepare for the next melt.  Just what you needed - another hobby!

[LowGear]

Dang It!

The intergalactic invasion of the cubies was finally under control with the help of this fellow.  I still have about 80 of them waiting in the deportation sector (the back yard) but not one of them is currently hiding under black visqueen waiting for me to leave town a week or two and BAM - they take over the whole yard right up to the garage. 

Attitude is the spice of life.  (I can't believe I wrote that.  I'm just not 13 anymore.  In fact I turned 68 this last Saturday.  No, No don't sent a bunch of cash to help the old man get by just your kind thoughts will sustain me.  [Pardon me while a puke])  And Thob, thank you for the great suggestion but no new projects until I ride my electric ATV down and up the driveway (down is easy on this one).  But now I have to finish the oil cleaner contraption I started last year.  At 68, the alternative to being over committed is not very interesting.

Casey

[veggie]

Casey,

Do you have the Witte up and running yet ?
It would easily run on the WVO/Dino diesel blend.

If the 55 gallon drum was almost full of WVO, then the amount of diesel he added is about 7% of the total mix.
You can still run that through filters or a centrifuge, then thin it further with 15%-20% rug and feed it to the Witte.
Mmmmmmmm the Witte will love it 

veggie

[LowGear]

Right veggie,

This just isn't my dream.  I get some really beautiful oil and it's destiny is to serve as thinned WVO but this "contaminated" stuff that needs settling is destined to be biodiesel.  One of my biodiesel guru's tells me I can still make biodiesel it will just require more catalyst and the diesel should slide through the processor and come out the other side as 93% biodiesel or B-93 using your 7% figure. I'll probably just save it to test the centrifuge contraption and should it come out like the gold you spin I'll use it as thinned WVO Proudly.

Casey

PS:  While the flashpoint of diesel is 100 - 162 it is only about 7% of this drum.  The flashpoint of biodiesel is about 266 and WVO much higher than that.  Now I have to find out what flashpoint means.   

[cognos]

"Flashpoint" of a fuel is the temperature that, when reached, will cause the fuel to liberate enough flammable gas that when a flame is applied to the surface, you will get a "flash" of flame. Depending on how long that temperature is held, or how large the sample, you could inadvertently creat an explosive mixture in an enclosed space.

It is a rough indication of the temperature at which a fuel becomes dangerous to handle around non-explosion-proof electrical fixtures, and anything that could cause an arc or has a hot filament, or could cause a spark, etc.

Unless there is a true chemical bonding of the fuel (not happeneing here), even a small amount of a lower-flash fuel to a higher flash fuel will cause the entire batch to now have the flash point of the lowere-flash product.

[LowGear]

Hi cognos,

So this is why biodiesel manufacture is far more dangerous that most shade tree chemists realize.  The flashpoint of methanol is 54 degrees.  So when the WVO - Methanol - KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) is heated up to 140 degrees a guy is almost looking down the gas tank filler using a match to see if there's enough to cause an explosion.  This also should wake up those of us that are considering distilling the methanol out of the glycerin that is drained off the biodiesel in the first place

Thanks for your help.

Casey

[cognos]

This is exactly correct. If there's ever free methanol around, you have the potential for explosive mixtures if it is heated above it's flash point. 140°F is well North of the danger zone. "Well Ventilated Area" becomes critically important, along with no open flame or arcing motors or switches. Let alone smoking...

I've read of home brewers distilling the residual free methanol off the glycerin. I've yet to read of a backyard process I would stand within 50 yards of, behind a blast shield.

Your equipment, to be safe, needs to be freed of oxygen first - in the industry, this is done by steaming out the distillation column and associated equipment to displace the air, then blanketing the system under nitrogen or "fuel gas" - methane, propane, butane - under a slight positive pressure, to keep any air from getting back in. Only then is the system charged with your mixture...

Just my opinion, I'm always going to recommend safety over expediency!  

[beyond biodiesel]

I had a fellow helping me today with my WVO separation program.  He dumped about four gallons of diesel into my separating drum (55 gallon).  Can I still process this mixture into biodiesel?  If I wait a few days will it move up to the top of the drum where I can pull it off?

Casey

I would just make a fuel blend out of any WVO that had been contaminated with any petroleum distillate.  Just add some gasoline to the blend to thin it out further, and anti-gel it, and run it like diesel fuel after filtering it.

[LowGear]

Just add some gasoline to the blend to thin it out further, and anti-gel it, and run it like diesel fuel after filtering it.

"anti-gel it"?

Casey

[beyond biodiesel]

Just add some gasoline to the blend to thin it out further, and anti-gel it, and run it like diesel fuel after filtering it.

"anti-gel it"?

Casey

Yes, Casey, I have found blending gasoline with waste oils reduces their gel-point significantly.  In fact last winter the temperatures dropped to 0F here, but my WVO 80% to gasoline at 20% fuel blend remained liquid and my engine started on the first crank without the use of a block heater.

Gasoline blending also de-waters the waste oil, and causes particulate and lacquer to precipitate out of solution, so it is best to blend in a settling tank, then allow 24 hours for the sediments to precipitate out, before filtering.  I have found gasoline blending is even an effective biocide as well.