commecially available cogens

[mobile_bob]

i wouldn't buy one, but maybe we can learn something from what these folks have done?

http://polarpowerinc.com/products/generators/cogenset.htm

it looks to be fairly well thought out, and a nice package, and presentation
i would like to see one in operation

and then there is this

http://www.marathonengine.com/intro_eco.html

nice package, notice the inclusion of all the components in a more or less compact enclosure.

ok so i got tired of seeing an empty board on the forum!
anybody got links to other cogens?
bob g

[mobile_bob]

they have been at it for at least the last 10 years that i know of, and they
aren't getting there very quickly. at this rate it will take about another 50 years.

the biggest barrier to entry i see is the variable market and ever fluctuating fuel prices
compounded by a cost factor that is probably 3-5 times that of a standard heat pump.

a paradigm shift in how us north americans live will need to take place before the
commercial market in microcogens begins to take hold in my opinion.

pretty hard to make a cogen work when you got some living in 1500 sq/ft and others in 2500 and far more.

if we ever get to where we have some sanity in house sizes and they reduce to the average family home
size of the mid 50's, then a microcogen would have a ready market.

we may be going that direction sooner than we think

bob g

bob g

[TimSR2]

The marine industry is often has leading edge technology. Look here.

http://www.whispergen.com/main/dcmarinespecs_info/

tim

[mobile_bob]

interesting unit, however it is only about 10% efficient at converting diesel into electrical power
that is just about worthless for my needs, however
they get an overall efficiency factoring in the heat recovery of right at 80% which is not bad at
all, and is a testament to their ability to capture the waste heat.

their heat recovery efficiency must be close to 90% that we can learn something from perhaps.

overall a pretty cool machine

bob g

[cgwymp]

Stumbled across this the other day:
http://www.baxi.co.uk/products/2137.htm

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned here before so I thought it was worth posting.  I know nothing about the unit except what it says on the webpage, but I thought it was interesting in that they use a Stirling engine to spin the generator.....

They also make the claim that in Denmark, CHP accounts for 55% of the electricity generated.  If true, I'm very surprised at that number!

[elnav]

Bob wrote:
They also make the claim that in Denmark, CHP accounts for 55% of the electricity generated.  If true, I'm very surprised at that number!

REPLY
Believe it. My uncle ( a steam fitter) worked in that field  for more than  20 years before he shifted over to to work on the nuclear reactor Denmark built on an island .  In Denmark we called it 'distance heat' and was well established  many decades ago. Remember  that Denmark is a very small country. You can put it in your hip pocket of some baggy overalls.

[cgwymp]

REPLY
Believe it. My uncle ( a steam fitter) worked in that field  for more than  20 years before he shifted over to to work on the nuclear reactor Denmark built on an island .  In Denmark we called it 'distance heat' and was well established  many decades ago. Remember  that Denmark is a very small country. You can put it in your hip pocket of some baggy overalls.

Just did some googling -- it does seem that CHP is big in Denmark.  However, I mistakenly assumed the Baxi webpage was talking about microcogen....   Makes much more sense to me now!  :-)

[detour]

www.amplepower.com

[Lloyd]

We need to start looking at the technology that our military is funding, and then adopting. MEPS, as the generator base, then co-gen added.

http://gcn.com/microsites/2011/peo-c3t/pm-mep-mobile-electric-power-is-lifeblood-of-battlefield-tech.aspx

A commercial outcome http://www.meps.com/products.html



Google this    Advanced Medium Mobile Power Sources (AMMPS)

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

DEVELOPMENT OF PROOF-OF-. CONCEPT UNITS FOR THE ADVANCED. MEDIUM-SIZED MOBILE POWER. SOURCES (AMMPS) PROGRAM. March 2002 ...
www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/113709.pdf



Here is the mil work shop manual for this technology http://generators.tpub.com/TM-9-6115-641-24/css/TM-9-6115-641-24_18.htm

Lloyd

[SteveU.]

Hi All
This seems the best place to put this up. I found this researching different manufacturers willing to EPA upgrade (and how) to be Tier IV compliant with thier aircooled single cylinder engines. Surprizing many able to keep thier aircooled diesels non-electronic.

http://us.yanmar.com/products/energy-systems/models/

This is for thier three different residential microCHP systems offered.

Open up "More details" read; and then "Download Brochure"  for the most details.
Dosn't matter so much how they do this.
What is important is they Did, USA EPA certify two of their three systems. Proves it can be done, and made realistically non-Gov'Mint tax pig trough'ed made up, and put out onto the general market.
Shows good raw numbers conversion and recovery capabiltys.
Benchmarks to strive for on DYI systems.

Also shows to me that in the small actual electrical personal needs ranges you are NOT going to get enough heat for most US/Canadian and northern European seasonal needs without grossly oversizing for the heat end of it. So, the majorty would still need a separate high efficiency space heating system.
But what the hey! We all do need domestic hot water to go along with our electrical needs. And electricity then gives you easy refrigeration.

Regards
Steve Unruh