Micro CoGen.

Hello everyone!

I won bidding on a new old stock 3HP Changfa R165 water cooled diesel engine from ebay last month! Got it for a decent price, shipping cost abit lol. I got it shipped by UPS from export Pennsylvania to my place in London ontario.  Yes i live in canada and i had no problem importing it. 8) It has the usual spart parts, pulley and orginal changfa owners manual for the changfa R165! This engine has never been used and is in excellent shape, it was made in 2008 so it has been sitting around for 8 years. Only problem it had was the injector pump was stuck but i freed it up!
Im in the middle of removing the Chinese blue paint and painting it a nice red por-15 engine paint.

While attempting to remove the flywheel i noticed an ever so sightly amount of rotational play rocking it back and forth clockwise and counter clockwise, about 1/32" of an inch when measuered from the outside diameter of the flywheel. The flywheel is 9.5 inch across. Is this normal for the flywheel to have this slight play? Is this the cleances in the rod and piston pin bearings im feeling? The flywheel is on good and tight! And I did a test run on the little diesel and it ran just perfect! Sounds good aswell ! Starts up riteaway! Heres a video of it running at 1800 rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGe2CsB-Jz8

Please Let me know if any of your changfas have this slight rotational back and forth play in the flywheel? I cant find any information on this matter,  Is this normal or not ??? 

Thanks for reading!

Jesse mcb

There should not be any rotational play between the flywheel and the crankshaft. ZERO.
Typically the flywheels have both a key and a taper fit which makes play almost impossible.
What you may be feeling by rocking the flywheel back and forth is the play in the big square cut gears connecting the crank to the cam/injector pump shaft.
These are notorious for having a backlash in the amount that you noted. This loose gear mesh also makes a clicking noise which can be felt in the flywheel when rotated.
That's my guess  ;)

Veggie

if the flywheel is tight and i assume it is or it would have been knocking like hell when you ran it.

the play you describe is the play in the rod brg to crank journal play.

iirc the stroke is about 3 inch or so, so half that will be about 1.5 inch
the flywheel is what?  9 inches or so in diameter or maybe 4.5 in radius?

that is about a 3:1 ratio,  so whatever the clearance is between the rod and journal, the pistion pin and piston, pin and rod small end... probably .010" or so in total... x 3= approx .030" at flywheel outer rim

which coincidentally is about the 1/32" you are reporting.

my 195 has all of that, and probably much more as the flywheel is much larger.... i don't recall how much but it is quite a bit out at the rim of the flywheel.

i don't think you have a problem, provided the flywheel is tight to the crank.

if you are concerned, you can always remove the crankcase cover and have a look inside.

my bet is you are ok.
bob g

So today I removed the gear cover and inspected the gears, your right veggie they do have a good amount of gear lash! But its not the source of the play that im feeling, I can feel the gears teeth still dont touch when using a feeler gauge.  Like i said its such a small amount of play Im bearly moving the flywheel at all!. So i removed the crank cover to inspect the rod bearings, there is no loose bearings at all everythings nice and tight!

Bob what your saying makes sense! I came up with the exact same ratio but used a different formula lol :o. When I opened the crank cover to inspect while moving the flywheel, i can see the rod rocking ever so slighty side to side on the crank, but bearly. So It must be what you said bob, the rod journal and piston bearings clearances showing at large because of the flywheel  : :-X I have an R170 diesel "a changfa clone" that has the same amount of play in its flywheel!

Also im thinking if i should replace the main crank 6307 bearings with USA made bearings? Does changfa use good enouph quality bearings that i dont have to worry about them flying apart?  I had this happened with my R170 "changfa clone" after about 400 hours! It had cheap cheap main bearings!

Thanks for your help guys!

Bob this is for you, i got the right measurements  ;D

Bore x stroke for R165
65mm x 60mm
Flywheel Play .03" at 9.5" OD
Stroke 60mm  -  2.36"
Flywheel OD to stroke ratio 4:1 
9.5" / 2.36" = 4:1

Flywheel play divide ratio = .0075
.03 / 4 = 0.0075

Total bearing play divide 3 = .0025 
0.0075 / 3 = 0.0025

.0025 estimated bearing clearances for all 3 bearing types

Crank journal to main rod bearing
small end to piston pin 
Piston pin to piston

Kinda funny actully lol i wounder if all engines are like that?

something else that ends up in the clearance stack

the ring to land gap,  you might have another thousands there to add in
the rings fit the bore tight enough that you will feel a bit of clearance there too.

also depending on where in the stroke, if at or near bottom dead or top dead center, you can have a lot of
slop or feel like there is and in reality it is only the rod angularity making it feel much worse than it is.

something else to think about, just for giggles

start the engine and run it for a few seconds, shut it down and immediately feel the clearance/slop
with oil pumped up into some of the gaps, my bet is there will be a lot less apparent slop at the crankshaft.

all i can say is this, the s195 has iirc somewhere around a 20inch flywheel,and the apparent slop or clearance at first seems like a huge amount of play.... its just geometry at play.

as for the little fella, i would dearly love to have bought a pair back when they were widely available.  the smallest i have now that is water cooled is a pair of 175's.... however i have 3 of the 3hp aircooled engines tucked away. 

for a tiny house application, i am thinking one like yours could be a really cool hub to a power and heat (cogen) setup in moderate climates.  and somehow i am thinking the little fella is not nearly as loud as its bigger brothers.

bob g

That I really haven't thought of bob! The piston rings will locked with the cylinder liner as the piston moves ever so slighty. Reason why i like mechanics and engines so much is the precision involved! Its fasinating ;D

Hey i figure since there is not much info on these smaller Changfas diesels i will keep posting my R165 project pictures. I will be disassembling it when i have proper tools to look over every possible nick and cranny for sand, havent seen any yet  It will be used as the power source for my offgrid woods cabin in novascotia at around 1800 rpm with a Chevy one wire alternator. Im hoping to get about 500 to 600 watts counting for the alternators efficiency and running at 1800 rpm. But i will use max load time to time to clear up the carbon. Also like what you said bob i will be utilizing the exhaust and hot water for even more efficiency for heating my place! These smaller diesels can run very quiet when a really good muffler is attached. So quiet you can hold a conversation facing the exhaust on max load! I wounder what will happend if the end of the exhaust is in a big barrel of water will that bubble to much or to much back pressure? :o ;D lol!

I inpected every detail of the engine and maybe a few things could be removed added on and redesigned.

1. Hopper
Remove hopper and use a small radiator, cut out a 3/8 plate, bore a hole to insert a thermostate housing with thermostate, this will serve as the water outlet port, Removed water drain spout and utilzed that for a npt barbed water inlet, this cool water return will help keep the head cool!  Im thinking about using an electric water pump and having the system Pressurized.  

2. No oil pump and oil filter  :o
There is no forced oil pump in the R165 and R170, only splash and centrifugal forced. It does have a barbaric worm drive oil pump on the cam shaft end to supply oil to the rockers. Its so simple its ridiculous! I wounder if it has any psi and flow rate
Im going to buy a small universal engine oil gear pump on aliexpress and rig it to a small electric motor and attach a good oil fliter. This will definitely prolong engine life! I will take advantage of the oil drain and dip stick port for the Out and in of fresh oil. I was thinking attaching the oil pump to the cam shaft end like how a R175 works but the R165 gear cover is so small theres no room! And id have to cut a slot in the end of the cam shaft and thats to much work and possibly damage.

3. Camshaft small end , no bushing bearing
The camshaft small end inserts in the gear cover in a small bore,  i noticed theres no bearing bushing that can be replaced so when it wears out down the long road then what? Well there may not be any extreme forces in this little area but for security im gonna bore it out enouph to press a brass bushing in, i checked many onlines sites and yes they are available for any size you need! ;D

That is the few things i think would make the engine more reliable! Ill be posting more whenever i get proper tools to dissemble the engine! The main bearings are pressed in so it will take certain tools lol

Nice buy! I missed that one.  I also have an R165  and pretty much the entire  R-line except I currently dont own an R195. I am yet to find use for the R165. Thinking about belting it to an automotive alternator and using it for a portable battery charger just to keep it limbered up. For some reason, probably tight tolerance, the Chinese pumps and injectors are more susceptible to sticking when left to sit than the Listeroids are.  I have had to unstick my R170 three times.

Single R180? R185? desperation ( by the seller) bought and owned by me. The largest they made before going to internal counter balance shaft.
SAME sistuation. Very reluctant to build design around as a no-can-get-parts engine. Cute though. Electric starts fine. The o-n-l-y small deosel my wife will (would) use and operate. Listroids were intimidating to her.

Jessie McB you said a one-wire Chevy alternator.
That dog has been futile hunted for 50 years as an off-grid charger and been found wanting. Like working with one hand tied  behind your back.
Why?
ALL "one wire" alternators actually need two wires when the battery bank not-common ground mounted. So you will need a second to the battery return circuit (ground) wire of the same size as the main charge out wire. Better anyhow than relying on return current trough shake loosening bolts and seeping in pretty-paints anyhow. Truck and Marine alternators most often internally insulated requiring the use of both a positive and negative cable.

Second reason "one-wire's" are far inferior. ALL "one-wire" (actual two cable) systems have to rely on the iron in the unit retaining residual magnetism so after the engine is running spinning the charging unit this residual magnetism will help start a wee bit of charging voltage building up. Takes a bit of time/rpm before of this self-bootstraping before the unit internal regulator will turn on for full power.
Had my ass kick but good installing one-wire Delco's conversions onto old farm tractors. HAVE to rev those slow speed engines to get the alternator to turn on. Cold start, engine idling, meanwhile battery slowly  discharging for igntion-power leads to a no-start if that tractor not raised RPM, hard worked. Not a town parade use good thing at all.
GM/Delco knew this. Why on automotive applications they put in the other two wires. One wire is through the system on/off switch, battery current flowing through an indicator light with a parrelle resistor to make good and damn sure those alternator were from an engine idle turned on.
The truck/industrial/marine self-exciting only two wire units they put in an special external "flashing" nipple terminal for times the unit would not turn itself on. Mech/tech then able to unit installed force it to start.
A General Motors/Delco Remy "fix" for slow cold idling diesel school bus and industrial units where the operators were not engine rev starting up the alternators to charging was an internal or external kit that would allow at engine off a small trickle in of battery power to keep the alt system magnetized. O.K. For daily/weekly used systems. Summer shut down for school buses, and winter shut down on construction equipment and after a few months the were all drains flat dead.

Solutions?
Just like I found on the old tractor conversions.
Learn the Chevy/GM/Delco Remy small numbered #1 and #2 terminals are the one for guaranteed switched turning on and off of the alternator/regulator system. The other terminal is for voltage regulator DIRECT BACK TO THE BATTERY state of charge VOLTAGE SENSING.
Important especially for off engine mounting system charging of battery or a battery bank. Any terminal corrosion or distance under-sizing of cabling and that battery/bank will be under charged. All of the time the alternator happy with what is is seeing at it's ass end. Remotely at the battery voltage sensing the alt will put out nearly whatever it needs in voltage  to keep those batteries up to a good charge state.

In the Chevy/GM/DELCO line of alternators the reaaly good cooler running low speed capable start with the larger mid and large frame units, series numbers 15SI, 17SI (skip 27), 30SI 40 SI units.
And since using  fuel the best obviously a concern by using the R165, I would still kick efficiency-use ass by at lesat 15% just by using a later dual internal fan Dephi (former Delco) unit. Yep four wires.

Read here in the alternator section about even better LeeceNeville/Prestolite/Motorola chinese clone beefy alternator for another 15% efficiency use improvement on slow low speed engines applications. Yep. 4-5 wire to learn them.
Para-prasing the old hot-rod wisdom:
Efficiency costs . . . how much you willing to self-invest to learn?

J-I-C Steve Unruh

Yeah the IP can get stuck over time if not being used. My R165 was sitting for 8 years before it was sold on ebay.  the IP was stuck so tight i had spray WD40 lithium grease waited 24 hours then it slowly and stiff it finally came out. Taking out the plunger It got a small scuff that i can bearly feel with my finger nail :o, but the engine worked perfectly with its test run, and just in case I purchased a spare barrel and plunger from aliexpress for $12 last week lol.  8)  Its just like another ebay, they have plenty of parts for sale for these engine, hey have fuel injectors for the S195 for $20 USD shipping included! I actully purchased a R170 from aliexpress 2 years back, lol thinking of that brings bad memories hahaha!
Parts for these smaller changfa engines are more available then 2 years ago when i purchased my changfa clone R170, boy that motor blew up twice on me lol!! Main ball Bearings went fast becuase it had horrible balanced flywheel. Cheap cheap!  

Everyone here thats in need of changfa parts they have head gaskets for sale on ebay for changfa diesels, type it up and check it out,  kinda exspensive but easy to buy if you have a ebay account! They are about $20 USD the seller also has engine parts available as well for all the  changfas types. But like i said they may cost

Now about the alternator for charging batterys, im a bit sceptical on what to use to generate power as this diesel is so small. Being just 3hp it will only put out 1000 watt with alternator power at max load. alternators have low efficiency like around 55% but able to not worry about the engines speed is a trade off!   I only need about 600 watt to charge batterys and run my place so i would prefer to run the changfa at around 1800rpm to prolong life. Im sure it should put out at least 600 watts at 1800 Rpm load. I have some pictures of the engine im in middle of scraping and removing the paint so its Not the prettiest shape!! I will be painting it  Por-15 Red should look nice!

R165

that little fella is just plain cute!

depending on what you want to charge?  12 or 24? 
a 12volt 110-555jho can be controlled with a programmable controller/regulator to get right at 80% efficiency
doing 24volt nominal charging,, with the right controller that can be programmed for small engine use and you
have a pretty efficient setup.

it basically comes down to what the real needs are.

the little engine of course is not as efficient as its bigger brothers, however it is more efficient down at around one kwatt
than the bigger bro's   they don't come into their own until they are loaded down to much higher kwatt outputs.

that is the interesting thing about the little 3hp engine,  years ago there was an ebay seller that had the electric start version, and i wish i would have bought a truck load of them, and another truck load of parts to keep them up and running.

i think a microminitinycogenerator could be made up out of one of these little engines that would be the bee's knee's for a tiny house, small fishing cabin or other remote operation where the need for domestic hotwater and power would be small
and a good match for one of these guys.

there is never enough time in the day it seems, and i feel horrible that life has taken me away from development of this thing we do.

if the new epa guy is reasonable, it might be worth the effort to take a trip to go visit this dude.

and maybe i should get with it before he moves to DC!

hmmmm

bob g

Bob you should of gotten that truck load! There would been many happy little changfas enjoying their lives in America  ;D

I know that induction motors can be used as a generator, but i wonder is there alot of efficiency lost using one as a generator? So Whats the catch lol its such a easy way to have a slow rpm gen head! Is a st gen head more efficient? If so by how much? I seen a power curve chart for this engine online somewere and i remember the most torque is at 1800 rpm so that be its most efficent speed and should be about 1.5 hp lol thats a joke this thing is almost to small  ;D

I also imagined using the diesel for a little go kart doon buggy that has a self heated cab for winter it be so cool!

I dont want the little diesel to run at full speed all the time so thats why im debating using an alternator.  
I wounder how much fuel It will burn in an hour to get 600 watt with an alternator? Im guessing around 400 ml of diesel since its max fuel consumption is .6L for full load.

There was a rather large dealer in china diesels  near me whose primary thing was supplying the Amish. He sold LOTS of them via word of mouth not the internet and thus he was/is not widely known.  When he quit due to the ban his rather substantial parts stocks went to a guy in eastern Ohio who is hoarding them for ??? reasons and wont sell an thing. However he kept his demonstrator engines and when he got tired of looking at them he advertised them locally and I was Johnny on the spot to help him out of his predicament. My favorite of all of them is the R180.  Another favorite is the R192, ever heard of one? neither had I, it is only one I have ever seen or heard about.

Would anyone know if the original main crank bearings would be reliable in my R165 changfa diesel? Or should i replace them with name brand bearings? I noticed they are pressed in, so ill have to buy a heavy-duty bearing puller. It was also the failure points of my previous R170 changfa "clone"

Im still at it removing the paint with a wire brush razor blade and a pick. This time i have the engine apart and it only took one tool! A 8" adjustable wrench!!!!! I will be assemblying with a torque wrench since i have the manual with the list of torque requirements ;D  Everythings apart except for the crankshaft assembly i managed to removed it out of the block by tapping on the bearing outter race with a socket. You can see in one of the pics the bearing cover and crankshaft with bearings are all together in its mass ill be buying a bearing puller to take it all apart. Then ill replace with US bearings ;D I have to replace the cylinder sleeve and piston as well because theres a deep scratch on both of them  :o  They be good for spares in the future! I made a custom made R165 cylinder liner removal tool out of a bicycles rear wheel axle stud, wood and a brake rotor and some wood shims, just like a bearing puller it worked flawless! And it took me only 10 min to make it!  I have some pictures posted of it!

They have a overhaul kit for the changfa R165 on aliexpress for $130 free shipping! it comes with cylinder liner, piston, piston rings and o rings, im going to add a few other parts aswell!
The paint is a hassle to remove with the drill and wire brush, it heats up melts and gets tuff, i managed to remove almost all of it except for a few area's on the block. I removed all the paint on the head today to bare metal and that wasnt easy  lol. Who knows maybe this Chinese paint has lead?!  :-X So i spray it with wd40 and wire brush it wet so it dont get in the air. Im painting it with por15 enamel ford tbird red, they got a complete painting kit thats decent price.

This is the R165 cylinder liner puller i made. Its made from a bicycle rear wheel axle stud since its high strength metal, brake rotor and wood.  
The nut against the brake rotor gets tightened up and it pulls the liner out.

Heres a pic of Before using oven cleaner, ill post the after pic soon, i have the other side sitting with the oven cleaner on it.   the oven cleaner actully works on the blue chinese paint! It removes it down to the metal!  i spray it on, cover it with plastic wrap, Let it sit for 2 hours, then i used a razor blade and it actually peels off like a plastic bag in sheets!!! So much easer then A metal wheel brush lol, and smells like lemonds  :) i was very surprised it works!

Heres a before pic when i didnt use any oven cleaner

After using oven cleaner

Hey Jesse,

Thanks for the update. Should be a beauty by the time you are finished.
I have to pull my R165 apart. I'm getting some soot in the coolant.
Does your engine have any gaskets...anywhere ?

Veggie

I cant wait to paint this engine, im gonna paint it ford T-bird red por15, below is a pic of what the colour will be. Im really impressed with how good the paint came off with oven cleaner, i used easy off its got a really nice lemon smell!

Veggie i only have a few of the gaskets left,  most crumbled right away. The back crank cover, the side bearing cap cover, head gasket, exhaust and intake gasket, they all crumbled when disassembly. But you can make new gaskets with gasket paper and you can buy head gaskets for the changfa R165 on ebay or aliexpress.

I wounder why you would have soot in your coolent? Maybe your head bolts need some tightening? Heres a picture from my changfa R165 manual torque requirements for this engine.

If your going to pull off the head you will need a new gasket most likely. Are you sure its not just the rust mixing with the coolent? I had a r170 with an extended hopper system that ran 12 hours a day for many months, after a few days of running the coolant will turn dark greyish colour.  

This is the colour im painting it por15 ford t-bird red engine enamel

In my case the coolant water was Jet Black when I drained it.
The oil was fine with no water, so I suspect the head gasket was leaking from the combustion chamber to the water jacket.
When I get some time I will pull the head and replace the gasket.

Did you find some gaskets for your engine or do you plan to make your own?

Veggie

I have no problem making my own gaskets for everything, it be cheaper reliable and more efficient except the head gasket of course lol.  Yes i found a source for gaskets on ebay and aliexpress, type in r165 gasket on ebay and you will see a few for sale! They have head gaskets they go for $20, on aliexpress they are much cheaper and can probably get 3 for $20. The guy on ebay selling them has any part you need on damand. On aliexpress i can buy 6 fuel injector nozzels for my R165 for $25 Canadian shipping included. Good deal and perfect if you want to use different fuel types! Same with the injector pump they have the parts for it cheap aswell like $2 for the internal plunger. Piston and cylinder liner kit is available on aliexpress aswell, i will let everyone know of the quality of the parts when i buy them  ;D

I just purchased a 8" 6 ton bearing puller online off amazon to remove the bearings off the crank assembly it should arrive next week. The bearings  are somewhat beefy size 6307 good size for the small engine!!. When i remove the Chinese original bearings ill need the new bearings installed, im thinking using heat and cooled method.

To install the new bearings my idea is I will heat the new bearings using oil bath or oven technique and at the same time i will chill the crankshaft in my deep freeze and after some time slap them all together hopefully with no forces needed. Next heat the side bearing housing and engine block in oven. The side bearing housing should slide right on the bearing assembly and then "drop" the entire crank assembly into its bore in the heated crankcase. I'm going to be carefull with the heating techniques i hear no hotter then 130 C is what you need. But the freezing part gets me thinking about condensation forming, some engines do get exposed to cold like in a car, so i wounder if freezing will hurt the bearings at all?  I wounder if i even have to freeze anything?

dry ice and clean solvent or gasoline work very well for chilling the part you want to shrink
just chip up the dry ice and drop the chips a few at a time into the solvent with the crankshaft in it
it will boil like a witch's brew, and it will be very very cold so use leather gloves or risk certain frostbite.

you can heat the brg over a lightbulb, use a laser temp gun to monitor the temperature.

or... my favorite and likely that of the chinese

use a hammer and a brass drift or punch and just drive it on, you will have an idea how tight the brg fits when you pull
the original.  if you find it tight as hell, and by that i mean you wreck your new puller, maybe the heat/cold method is best

if you find the 6 ton puller takes it right off, then just drive it on or heat it on a lightbulb and drive it home.

bob g

Thank you bob for the great advice! Now I will be busy looking for a dry-ice source ;D  Im glad i ripped apart the changfa it has some casting sand at the head area in the block in the push rod chambers!! I cleaned out most of the sand with a coat hanger and tooth brush for 20 min but still not satified even though it looks really clean now.
I guess one place to look for casting sand is the push rod chambers! Casting sand gets caught underneath the chambers edges and hide from view when the Chinese sand blast the castings. Ill be spending over an hour for sure tmr using a tooth brush coat hanger and a pick to clean out every last grain. Then clean the entire block inside and out in the hottest soapy water and i think ill douse it with oil when its still wet hopefully to avoid flash rust when drying.

Well i got the bearings removed!! Heres a photo, I was happy i woke up this morning with an email saying my bearing puller is out for delivery today! It was supposed to be in jan 9th!  I used just 2 jaws to removed the bearings becuase theres no I room for 3  as you only have half of the bearings exposed because of the crank throws. It worked with some difficulty keeping it straight, but it pulled the bearings off nice and easy! They were very tight to budge but a little wd-40 and a few hits with a wrench on the back of each arm that grabs the bearings makes pulling easier! I was thinking grinding down the arms on the puller to fit between the bearings and the crank throw which is like 1/4 gap  :o , but i figured i can used it with 2 arms were the crank throw dont cover the other half of the bearings side, and have them on short mode to stabilize it. The oil throw side bearing to remove it i had to put a few metal shims in between the oil throw and bearing to make it easy. Next is to do the cam shaft   :)

Just out of curiosity Jesse, what brand are the bearings that you removed? The engine being a true Changfa I would have expected a good quality OEM bearing.
I was wondering what to look for when I get the time to go into one of my changfa clones.
Ron.

Quote from: vdubnut62 on January 05, 2017, 08:12:02 PM
Just out of curiosity Jesse, what brand are the bearings that you removed? The engine being a true Changfa I would have expected a good quality OEM bearing.
I was wondering what to look for when I get the time to go into one of my changfa clones.
Ron.

Thats exactly what i was thinking that the bearings would be a good brand, but they are china brand. The crank bearings 6307 are AAA brand from china, and the cam bearing is WXB brand from china aswell, So im using US  and japan bearings like SKF and Nachi. I had a bad experience with the china bearings in my R170 and i dont want to take a chance  ;D

Casting sand alert big time! There was so much in the push rod galleries it took me 4 hours of picking scraping and rinsing! Now the gallery's are spotless and clean!! So i figured the best way to wash a block is Hot water amd keep it under at all times, then finish with mild water. I put it in the bath tub on top of a old towel so it dont scratch the tub. My "girl friend was like what are you doing with a engine in the bathtub?!"  ;D Us guys do what we gotta do to get the job done lol!, i will of course clean the tub good after  ;)  So i filled the bathtube with hot water and gave the block A good scrubbing keeping it underwater at all times. I Pulled the tubs drain and started filling it with cold water so it stays filled to cover the crank case. I drained The tub when it got cooler in temp.  I used the baths fauscet to rinse out the rest of the crap inside the crankcase with mild temp water. I put it on news paper and sprayed the block good inside and out while its still wet with wd40, and guess what no flash rust. Keep it cool it when wet it won't rust so scary fast.  I slowly took my time over 10 min to dry it with a old shirt that won't lint up. I used methal hydrate in a squirt bottle to remove the wd-40, it dries out the entire block inside and out and it dont stink like gas.The Engine is now ready for its new bearings then piston and cylinder. The last step will be painting it, and setup as a generator, then it be ready for my Nova scotia trip this summer. Im thinking 6 hours a day for a month,  186 hrs  :)

Well today i cleaned up all the engines parts, no more blue paint! I swear i never want to see blue ever again! If any of you are going to repaint your engine use oven cleaner spray the heck outta the block and let it sit over nite covered with plastic to keep it evaporating. It will all wash off with water next day!, use easy off it woks! Saves from getting black snot using a wire wheel!!! It will remove the glyptol paint inside so be careful!  I used it to remove the paint on the pulley aswell. All the screws i put them in a bag with oven cleaner and it removed the paint flawless. Thank gosh saved me hours of time!  Well now whats left is to buy the parts to finish the engine, i purchased a new 6204 bearing for my camshaft . Now looking for two 6307 bearings for the crankshaft. Im buying a new cylinder sleeve and piston kit off aliexpress, and i need a few other parts, head gasket, conrod bearings, throttle spring "i destroyed it with the wire wheel brush" the engine has no camshaft bearing lock bolt so i have to order one aswell. and the valve guides dont look pretty so ill get new ones aswell. Besides that every other part is perfect. i found casting sand inside the crankshaft oil bore for the crank journal! :o and i removed alot of burs in the crank case,  Yeap i swear i gave this engine a second chance it would last only 100 hours max before catastrophe happens  ;D Im so glad i ripped it all apart. Now i gotta buy the new parts needed, a torque wrench, and some engine paint. Next will be the construction of the generator system. I will be using a unpressurized thermostate electric pump system, the thermostate will be in the engines top plate ill make for the water outlet, the water intake will be the cylinders drainage port. Im using an electric water pump and a super small Yamaha banshee radiator wih a 6" fan, yes its really small but perfect size for this little pixy diesel  ;D Im going to attach a oil gear pump driven buy small 12v dc motor to allow a real oil filter system with a screw on oil filter, to lengthen oil and engine life, plus it will add more oil volume, Im going to use a chevy alternator.  Since the engine is so small and ill be using 50/50 wvo and diesel the power output will be efficient. Im thinking since its rated at 3hp it will guzzle 600ml of fuel max load 1200 watts at 2600 rmp, not bad. Ill be using it at half load so it should burn about 400 ml hr with 600 watt load on the alternator at 1800 RPM. I will know if this works when i do the real testing.

Well i did a little experiment today and it worked great! I got the crank shaft and left it in the freezer for few hours, i got one of the old 6307 crank bearings and put it in a ballon and tied it up sealed tight. I heated the bearing in a pot of boiling water for 10 min. I quickly grabbed the frozen crankshaft and took the bearing outta the pot of water and removed the balloon, it kept it nice and dry. I grabbed the hot bearing with a cloth and with the crankshaft ready the bearing actually slid right on the cranks shaft so easily! So i know now that i only need to heat the bearing up to 100 C with boiling water and use a deep freeze for cooling. That all figured out i now know the engine block only needs heating up to 100C for installing the complete crank assembly. Im looking to purchase 2 SKF 6307 bearings, im looking on ebay for them lol, they are pricey but i want quality.
And some more good news for all you changfa owners! I manage to find another webiste that sells parts, its called  yoycart, i purchased 4 head gaskets for my R165 for $10 cad shipping included! Also i got a 5 pack of conrod bearings shipping included for $15, its direct from factory. Ill let everyone know when the parts arrive hopefully they are good quality! ! They have every parts you ever want for any china engine.

Be sure to fill us in on how those direct shipments go. I have been looking at some parts through Alibaba because there are some guaranties there as for transfers of money. I have also purchased many items direct from China through Ebay without a hitch but there are also horror stories,,,,  I dont have much call for parts but would be nice to know some trustworthy sources.

Quote from: playdiesel on January 13, 2017, 07:21:07 AM
Be sure to fill us in on how those direct shipments go. I have been looking at some parts through Alibaba because there are some guaranties there as for transfers of money. I have also purchased many items direct from China through Ebay without a hitch but there are also horror stories,,,,  I dont have much call for parts but would be nice to know some trustworthy sources.

Ill be posting the good news when the parts arrive! And Alibaba has changed for the better you can purchase with a credit card finally before  it was just bank transfer.  I haven't tried it yet but im talking with a few sellers on alibaba looking for a total valve replacement kit. The way to get their attention is to act like you want a sample and that your looking to buy a big lot if the sample piece is good. They know your checking other companies products as well so they will know they got beaten by price or quality if you never return for buisness.   ::)
Well today i manage to find 2 SKF 6307 bearings on ebay brand new, they arnt cheap either! They will be here tuesday. Now im gonna need to get a new oil seal for the crankshaft and get some gasket paper and make some gaskets! :)

Well the new crank bearings arrived in mail today! Nice brand new never open SKF bearings  ;D no Chinese cheap brands in this engine soon ! I will now need to order some fel-pro gasket material sizes 1/64 for the bearing housing and 1/32 for the rest of the engines gaskets. And i need to purchase a new oil seal. Then ill be reinstalling the crankshaft into the engine which i cant wait its been in peices for a few months :-[


Heres a picture of the SKF bearings next to the china ones.

The first thing youll notice is the china bearings rivots on the ball retainer are much smaller then the SKF bearings, check at the picture!  :D

I got the bearings installed on the crankshaft and camshaft! ;D

I used the balloon with hot water and deep freeze cooling methods i mentioned earlier in this thread.

The 100 C heated crank bearings dropped right on the frozen crankshaft with no problems! I used leather gloves to handle the hot bearings. The camshaft was different the bearing was small it cooled of too quick so it didnt drop in place, so i had to use the hammer and punch methode on the inner race of course. Im happy i got US name brand SKF bearings for the engines crank no more china bearings yay! I had to replace the bearings anyways because the engine had some casting sand in it and the test run i did may had ruined them !? 8)

Now all i need to order is the cranshaft oil seal and some gasket paper and i can start assembling the crankcase and gears. I dont like having the engine in peices even though the parts are carefully in place and organize, just loosing any little part will just mean more money to spend to replace it.

Jesse,
Good job !

I'm looking forward to seeing this little engine running.
Be sure to post a YouTube video if you can  ;)

keep the updates coming,
Veggie

Thankyou! I posted a link of the engine running on the first page, here it is again. This is the engine before i stripped it all apart lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGe2CsB-Jz8

I will have more posted soon of the reassemblly and paint job!  im waiting on the crank oil seal to come in the mail, and im going to order some gasket paper from amazon. So i can start assembling, They have felpro gasket material for good deal. $20 and i will have enouph to make many gaskets,  1/64 sheet for the main bearing housing, and all the rest of the gaskets are 1/32 sized. I made sure i measured the existing old gaskets  ;D Ill have a fresh pack of 10 headgaskets and a 5 pack of rod bearings arriving soon from china  8) another thing to mention is im saving up my veggie oil from my deep fryer lol, yes we use it alot in our household. Every week we change the oil. so ill mix it 50/50 with diesel to make a fuel blend it will be a cool living experiment For this summer when i go down to my cabin for a month. Ill need to save up about 45 liters of oil, thinking ill be burning  3 liters a day, for a month, that be 90 liters total after mixing 50/50 diesel and veggie oil. Thats alittle under 200 hours of run time, it probly wont even break in during that time lol  

Fiinally i got the gasket material and the crank oil seal in the mail today!  8)

I came home from work today very happy knowing that i can work on the pixy diesel again!  ;D
So right now im working on cutting new gaskets, installing the oil seal, and im going to drop the crankshaft assembly in the block by using the hot and cold method. So that means im going to assemble the entire engine tonite, only thing is i wont be torquing anything tight till i have a torqe wrench. And I still have to buy the cylinder sleeve and piston kit.
Also im waiting for a package from china, 6 head gaskets and 6 sets of con rod bearings, it should be here next week!  :)

Its assembled!!! Yay!! My plan to install the crankshaft assembly worked great!!! I froze the crankshaft assembly and chamshaft in my deepfreeze for 4 hours, i heated the crankcase at 220f in my kitchen oven for 1.5 hours.
I heated the bearing housing in boiling water, when it got to temperature i slipped it right on the crank assembly flywheel side. I slipped on the new bearing housing gasket, and then refreeze the crank assembly. Then I installed the tappets!!,  ;D I got the frozen camshaft assembly and it slid right in its bore :) Right after this i got the fully complete crankshaft assembly and dropped it right into its crankcase bore flawlessly. Then hand tighten the nuts and bolts. I finally got the engine assembled!!  8)

Now just need that parts package from china! Con bearings, head gaskets, throttle spring, and valve guides. Here are some pictures!  

R165

Looking good

I have a question that i hope someone may have a good answer for,  the cylinder sleeve has a scratch running through it, i. I feel it no problem with My finger nail. Below is a picture, im wondering if its still good to use or not?  The piston has a scratch aswell on its skirt, same thing im woundering if they are usable or not? the scratches was from casting sand.

The scratch actually misses most of the combustion side of the cylinder.      

Jesse,

Here's what I do in those situations...

Cylinder:
Get (or borrow) a cylinder Hone and give it a very light Hone job while lubricating with some light cutting oil.
Remember to slide the Hone in-and-out of the bore while rotating at a medium speed on your drill to establish the magic 45 degree cross hatch hone pattern.
Just a quick light hone, then inspect. No need to worry about material loss.

Piston:
I have had pistons much worse than yours. Take some ScotchBrite polishing wool (the none metallic stuff) and lightly buff it by hand .
You will be amazed at the result.

Hope this helps,
Veggie

Thank you for your advice veggie! I will have to think about what to consider! 

Ok so the piston is not that bad in shape  8) I can admit that if i hone this cylinder the scratch will not disappear its deep enouph to catch my fingure nail. Im considering if i should purchase a new cylinder piston kit which cost about $80 with delivery, or just use these parts. The way i feel is its a shame as the cylinder only have about 5 minutes of run time! And the engine did run good when test running I seen no oil buring, so im sceptle on thinking what would be the worse that can happen if I use this scratched cylinder?

Well i made up my mind!  8)

I just purchased a brand new cylinder liner and piston kit! I got express shipping so it will be here in under 14 days  ;D I also ordered some extra parts, 4 sets of connecting rod bearings, 4 head gaskets, 4 sets of valve guides, and 4 governer springs. I like to have extra parts so that way incase of a repair.  

Now all whats left on my list for this engine is to buy a socket tool kit and a 10-150 ftp torque wrench, and finish it all off with some por-15 red enamel paint! The only tools i used to disamble this engine was its included flywheel wrench, adjustable wrench, screw driver, small tapping hammer, my home made cylinder puller", 8" bearing puller, and a piece of hardwood.

Then the other half of the project starts!! Mounting the engine on a small mobile cart, generating power with an alternator, cooling with a small atv radiator is my idea.  :)  

I'd suggest do the hone job as previously described, won't hurt, and would be good practice for future.
And the scotchbrite on the piston.

And run it.   You have a spare on the way, and all you loose is the head gasket, or run it till it croaks, and then redo.
If you are going to toss the cyl and piston, may as well get some usage before you scrap them,  what's the worst,
can a ring catch on the scratch and jam the piston?
 Would it break anything else ?  
It'd give ya a chance to "shake" loose any remaining sand as well.
 Everyone else chime in

Thank you mike for your advice, now i got some thinking to do lol.
It does make sense to perhaps just use the cylinder and piston, i cant see any reason it could cause any damage to the engine, and also from what i read carbon fills in the voids. I do like the thought of having a shiny new overhaul kit ;D

I cleaned the cylinder amd piston with oven cleaner and it removed the carbon just perfect!!!!  And it looks very clean! Im going to go with your idea mike  and just use it! After all its not going to hurt anything but itself lol. So now im gonna use my homemade cylinder installer! ill post a pic of it!

Heres a few pics of the home made cylinder pulling tool i made, i made it so it breaks down in 2 pieces so it can do both remove and install the cylinder.
I installed the orginal cylinder regardless of the scratch, i notice it only goes through a small portion of the combustion zone. The cylinder Is nice and clean with a perfect crosshatch, ive seen engines way worse and they ran just fine. So i guess a have a new shiny spare parts for the future lol!

R165 diesel engine Cylinder tool

This is it setup to install the cylinder

R165 diesel engine cylinder tool

This is it setup to remove the cylinder

Nice tool improvisation  ;D
I think your choice to run the existing piston/cylinder is a good one.
It gives you a chance to experiment with different alternative fuels for a while without worrying about the bore and rings.
As I recall you were planning to burn WVO or WMO ?
Once all the experimenting is done you can install the new piston/sleeve if needed.

Veggie

Veggie you are absolutely right! Great idea! Its best to do all the experiments with the original parts, and if it runs good ill just keep using the parts till the end. this means ill have fresh new parts put away for the future! I do like my sleeve puller tool it only took one quick glance at a few bicycle tires and i got the idea rite away! Long fine threaded hardened steel studs  8)

Yes im going to burn WVO, i will be collecting mine throughout the next 5 months from our household, we change it alot so its fresh, so all ill need is 14 gallons. I will have enouph collected by june ;D. Im going to mix it with 50/50 diesel, thats my idea for burning wastes fuels. now i cant wait for my parts packages to come in the mail. I beleive ill have the engine running  for a bench test by next 2 weeks!! I live in the city so ill take it to my girl friends parents place in the country to do some testing  ;)

Im still waiting for my parts package to arrive! Updates will be coming soon!  ;D :)

The new parts package finally got shipped from china, it took almost 3 weeks for the sales company to get all the parts ordered from the manufactures., the chiniese new years slowed the order big time! Its shipped with dhl express fast shipping so it will be here quick well i hope lol, my projects been sitting untouch for a few weeks  ;D Well for my birthday i purchased a nice socket set, now i need a nice torque wrench!

Great news!! 8) My package of parts arrived and they are perfect shape!!!  ;D The 4 head gaskets look very decent! The cylinder sleeve is shiny no rust and no scratches! The cylinder had some dust on it but i washed it and its just perfect clean! The piston is in great shape! The connection rod bearings arrived in good shape and they are good quality! The valve guides are perfect qualtiy they have a bore hole to allow oil to drip for better lubrication. The piston rings arrived in perfect shape, and the throttle springs, well i ordered 4 and they sent me 8!  ;D  reason i think is because i have 2 types, ones longer and the others shorter, i used the longer one its rust free and the type used for this engine, the shorter springs will work i imagine if i wanted to use them, lol who needs a throttle spring? Ill sell for a good deal lol! I have the entire engine assembled! And now i just need to paint it! The. The other half of the project involes the cooling system, oil system, fuel system, alternator and engine mount. Heres some pictures of the parts and assembly!  look at the valve guides how the ones i ordered in have the bore holes for oil.

Parts for changfa R165

Changfa R165

Changfa R165

Look at the phote of the valve guides! They are better design for oiling, the other ones were shorter and no oil bore.

This is the last photo im taking of the engine before i paint it! It will be a nice red enamel!  :)

nice work!  my vote would be a clearcoat!

be a  shame to cover all your work with any color!

second choice would be shooting it with "plasticote" "cast iron" paint.  it is an engine paint that looks just like
fresh cast iron and in my opinion about the coolest color since "candy apple red"   

:)

bob g

I am going to leave some spots unpainted such as the bolts parts of the injector and injector pump. Also im debating leaving the outside rim of the flywheel unpainted. I do know what you thinking bob it looks really cool! When i first got it it was covered in dirt grease dust and the paint job was chipped and scratch very bad! The person i bought this from did not package the engine properly and when it arrived the box it was in literally turned to a bag the ups guy rolled it outta the truck :o ??  ::)

+1 what Bob said.
I really like to polished cast iron look.
Nice work so far.

Veggie

Looken good! that one should last a longtime.

I find it interesting that since you placed your parts order we suddenly have those exact same parts available on Ebay, LOL. Seller name is   royparts2016 . Guess they figured if you needed them others must also??

Quote from: veggie on February 28, 2017, 07:57:37 AM

+1 what Bob said.
I really like to polished cast iron look.
Nice work so far.

Veggie

im really thinking about if i should clear coat it it looks really cool!, por 15 has a clear coat for straight cast iron. I got some time to think about it i will be busy working for next few weeks  :) When paydays comes ill buy some paint or clearcoat whatever i decide by then. And buy a torque wrench to assmble it properly.  ;)

Quote from: playdiesel on February 28, 2017, 09:04:07 AM
Looken good! that one should last a longtime.

I find it interesting that since you placed your parts order we suddenly have those exact same parts available on Ebay, LOL. Seller name is   royparts2016 . Guess they figured if you needed them others must also??

it will last a while i did so much work into this engine its crazy! I have to mention that i actually found the ebay sellers parts provder and buy off them directly for only a few dollers a part! I got my parts about a 1/4 for the price of the ebay seller. The website yoycart.com is were i purchased my parts from, its hard to find whatever your looking for sometimes because there so much to browse through, but they do have what you need. I was freaked trying the website first time but everything arrive inorder and perfectly intacted!   8)

I have a new idea for the use of the little diesel engine, instead of restricting its use to just an alternator, i will make a universal engine mount for the engine so i can attach various machines to the engine, auch as an alternator hookup, ac generator hookup, wood splitter, water pump and so on just like a tractor and its PTO hookup! It be a waste to have it be used for one purpose.  My property in novascoita is all wooded and undeveloped, lots of work to be done on it!  Just pure woods and brook running down my property side  :) So today i did some work at a dary farm, i know the owners well very good people, i found a scrapped 1/2HP induction motor i will try to rebuild it  the bearings are seized. It be a good generator for AC power, should get about 800 watts from this motor its rated 7.4 amps at 120 VAC. Also i found a piece of steel thats  3/8" thick, i will cut a section out with a grinder for the water stop plate to attach a water thermostate too, and tap in two 3/8" holes for npt sensors for the radiator fan and hot water temperature gauge.

Jesse, I build my universal mounts using Unistrut framing.
Up here in Canada it's available at places like Eecol electric, Westburn Electric, and I saw some at Lowes.
You will need unistrut spring nuts and some of the available unistrut fittings to assemble a base easily and quickly that is fully adjustable.
This allows me to slide the engine to any point on the base.
Cross members to support an alternator or generator can be bolted on with any spacing you choose.
The base in the example below is a bit short because I only needed to mount the engine. But on other bases, I made it longer so that
I could mount a generator with any bolt spacing that came along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIQhtTwkDk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIQhtTwkDk)

cheers,
Veggie

Hey thanks Veggie that Unistruct seems like a good way to frame a engine mount. If i cant get a hold of the material, i will build something similar with some metal scrap and bolt something up! The thought of using a wooden frame freaks me out it be way to heavy and bulky. It did that with my R170 and it wasnt fun!  ;D I will defiantly want wheels for it as my engine is 20 pounds more then what it should be!? It should weight 70 pounds but it weighs  90 pounds for some reason? Anyways thanks for the idea!! btw i recieved another parts package for my engine from the website, everything arrived perfect! So the webstore is legit!  8)

Updates coming soon!  :) I will be ordering a 450 right side radiator from a dirtbike. Its a radiator the size of a video casset so perfect size for the little diesel! I already purchased a thermostate and all the hoses and tubes for the cooling system. Im going to buy a hot water pump from china rated to last 10,000 hours for only $20. Im making a custom sensor that will shut the engine down if the water all of a sudden dumps from the system such as a leak or hose comes loose. And im thinking using the flywheel as a pully to turn a mini chevy alternator mounted  to the top of the engine on custom mounts to run the water pump, fuel pump, radiator fan and electric oil pump. This way ill have the engine able to run stuff such as a Gen head, machinery, or DC generater without having to worry about switch things around. I may even come up with a electric start for the engine, maybe mount a freewheel sprocket to an small geared PM motor and attatch it to the crank start? Just a thought lol  ;D

Quote from: Jesse McB on March 04, 2017, 03:13:33 PM

i found a scrapped 1/2HP induction motor i will try to rebuild it  the bearings are seized. It be a good generator for AC power, should get about 800 watts from this motor its rated 7.4 amps at 120 VAC.

I have been playing with induction motors as generators and I have just about given up on them much as I do like the things.  You have seen the vids of me running mine off my little Diesel and I could get up to 2.5 KW off it ( even thought that dosen't calculate out but testament to the grunt of these little engines.)  Even without knowing what you are going to do with the generator, I would say don't even bother with a half HP motor.  It's going to be very touchy with loads and it's probably going to be a single phase which does not work as easy as a 3 phase with this nor is as versatile.

The problem is control.  I have found it's just too hard to keep them in the sweet spot for loads unless you are just running something constantly like a Light.
I had an idea of using and arduino to control the capacitance applied to the engine. Should be easy to set some paramaters and have a base capacitance then have the arduino step or vary that as needed to bring things back to the target output.
Unfortunately no where near as easy as I hoped.

Getting an AC voltage divider to sense the output in the first place is difficult to find at the least and not cheap if you can. Making one seems a bit hit and miss as well.  The programing is a bit over my head but probably could manage it eventually.  Then I don't know If I am going to need 2 for each capped phase or could get away with one.
If you only intend to run some lights with the thing, shouldn't be a problem but for any switched loads...... Get a proper gen head would be my advise that you can couple with an AVR and be done with it.
Hard to find stand alone Gen heads here but seem to be plentiful in the US.

I have only seen a couple of Prebuilt Controllers for induction generators and they were exy. they ran on loading the IMAG to a preset max output and then just diverting the power for the working load from a dump load. This way the capacitance could be set to get everything spot on and the power just channeled to where it was needed while maintaining a constant overall load. Probably better for a fixed install than a portable one.

You seem to be open from getting away a bit from the normal simple as possible ideal.  along these lines, you could use an arduino or other prebuilt boards to monitor and control things. As for your fail safe, You could incorporate this and other functions into an arduino very easily and could also use pre built boards available on fleabay for specific uses.
You could set an arduinto to control the electric fan on your radiator to turn it on and off according to engine temp or even step the speed in say 25% increments. For the fail safe, You could have a flow switch and monitor the pumps current draw. If it used less than the amount you dialed in ( under load)  then it could sound an alarm or trigger a solenoid to shut the engine down.  Electric oil pump could be monitored the same way.

There are a heap of thermostat boards on fleabay and another I got the other day for voltage. easy to monitor the voltage or current a pump was using and if it went out of paramater you set, say if the oil or water was low and the pump cavitated and pulled less power as it would do or the voltage on the line increased, it would trigger a relay to shut the engine down.  You could use boards with other things too. engine speed is too high or low and it pulls the pin.

The boards are very Cheap but the descriptions often have no resemblance what so ever to their function.  That's Chinglish for you.  I just tend to look through  the listings now and read the description of function rather than the title.  The boards I bought that monitired Voltage were described as being temprature Voltage control.  Guess you could apply the term "Voltage control" to any board really!  :0)

I use Unistrut on my own induction motor setup now.  By having a pair of North/ south and east/west rails, you can ajust for anything. I have my engine bolted down and move the electric motor where I want it on the unistrut to line up the belts. I sometimes put an alternator or 2 there and I can move them accordingly too.

Thank you glort for sharing your knowledge with the induction motor as a generator i appreciate it! I would rather not use one as you mention its a hassel to use ;D Gen heads are hard to come by in Canada. I have a ST 3kw in my Novascotia cabin i could use lol. Im considering not using this engine for just generator use since i have the little water cooled kubota diesel ill use that instead for my nova scotia power plant  ;D This way i can use the little pixy diesel for anything i wish, i would rather not have it restricted to just a generator i always wanted to make a little doon buggy With one of these diesels lol. Perhaps a heated cab for winter use lol!!

Well my radiator arrived! Ill post a few pics, and i also got kinda overboard and purchased 2 more cylinder sleeves and spare injector pump and fuel injector, reason is the website has every part for cheap prices so ill get what i can in case the websites not avaible a year or so from now!  ;D ill be buying another parts package involving small moving parts such as valves gears pushrods, camshaft. The parts are cheap and easy available so ill buy whatever i want to make the engine last a few overhauls  8)

Heres a simple diagram i made with my ipad lol, it's the water cooling system for my engine, its gonna be simple and reliable. Pictures commg soon.

that will work fine, are you planning to install a tstat?

if so, go with a 195F stat, and drill a 1/16" hole in the perimeter of the state housing plate
then insert a small cotter pin in the hole, bend and clip the legs short and leave it so it vibrates around
as the engine runs... this keeps the little bleed hole open and allows just a bit of coolant to bypass and pass
any trapped air and also allow for better water mix at the tstat bulb.  having a bit of bypass is helpful for the pump as well.

i would also highly recommend an electric fan with a 205F temp switch, this way the cooling system under load will be regulated by the fan and radiator and not the tstat opening and closing or running partly open loading the little pump.. in my opinion it is preferable to have the stat fully open and having the pump not having much of any restriction on it (both will last longer) and let the fan cycle on and off as needed to regulate the coolant temps...  mine cuts on at 214F and off at 205F and the tstat being a 195F is fully open all the time the engine is running after it come up to temp the first time.

all of these bits and pieces can be found in a decent salvage yard.

also for what it is worth,,, the bosch pumps are not too bad in price new, used maybe 7 bucks or so at a pic-a-part yard
and even if they leak a bit, if you take the pump apart and clean the thing up (usually corrosion on the seal) they seem to seal up and do just fine once up to temperature.

another thought comes to mind, because of the limited volume of coolant in your proposed system, consider an overflow tank and hook it up so that the radiator cap can expel coolant as it expands when hot, and such it back up when the engine cools down. another junkyard part.

7lb cap is fine in my opinion, although i think you could use a 14lb cap without problems, i just haven't seen the need to have that much pressure.  more pressure allows for hotter temps, but 205-214F with 50/50 mix seems to work just fine at max loading, so why have more pressure?  more pressure might keep more of the coolant from going to the overflow tank, but i see no real advantage and figure why put things under more stress.

if this was a s-195 idi engine, i would also tell you to remove and toss the oem headgasket in favor of the copper sandwich s-1100 DI gasket... this is a great upgrade.  the oem fiber metal core s-195 gskt will fail if the temps get over about 240F
(don't ask me how i know this) and the 1100 gskt is really a good looking option, it looks like a first world gskt as opposed to a gasket you might think someone cut out of a cereal box.

another thought while i am on a role

the little bosch pump that i use,  is of course a 12vdc unit, and it is ample enough to handle perhaps 20-22hp, and likely is more than the little 165 needs (not that it will hurt anything) you might install a power resistor and lower the voltage to the pump and by doing so reduce the flow rate?  probably unnecessary, but the pump might well last longer?  not that they have a short life anyway, many i have pulled are out of 20 plus year old cars, being original equipment with 200k plus miles on the clock and really crappy coolant systems loaded with stop leaks and rust... and the pumps have all worked just fine.

i for one am excited about your project!  the little 165 us just too cool in my opinion

bob g

Another idea to use instead of a thermostat is to control the DC water pump.  Could be as simple as on at 195, radiator fan on at 205.  Or variable speed if a micro controller is your cup of tea.  Just be sure you're measuring temperature where it gets hot when the pump isn't running.

Thanks for your ideas guys!   im gonna show some pics of the gear that came in from ebay! Im still waiting for more stuff, i like the ideas im getting from everyone its making me do alot of thinking! I purchased a thermostat  it hasnt arrived yet, but i do like the idea of the pump being regulated by temparture. But now im thinking it may work with thermosiphyon? I will show some pictures of some ideas!

the engine will work with thermosiphon, if setup right, however
in my opinion you won't get near the output from the engine because thermosiphon is not as effective
as a pump system with radiator, fan and all the other stuff.

reason being you will develop hot spots, steam pockets etc, things that don't happen as easily with a pump driven coolant.

don't let the added complexity of an enclosed, pump driven, radiator/tstat and all the other stuff rule your thinking
or worry you about the added complexity leading to a less reliable system.

yes there are a few more parts, and yes it is a bit more complex, however the technology is very mature and reliable
and if you plan on working the engine up near max output the added control is going to assure a long lived setup.

thermosiphon systems are very simple, that is if setup right, however in my opinion they are much more difficult to setup correctly for varying loading, varying temperatures (ambient) and because the little engine holds so little water, you will have to have reservoirs of added coolant to assure safety. more water means much longer warm up periods, longer warm up equals more engine wear, so getting the thermosiphon tank sized properly of what you need can be problematic and an exercise in much testing.

lots of folks use the method and have done well, but...

for instance the s195 is rated at 12hp continuous with its oem thermosiphon/hopper cooling... the 12 hp continuous limit is limited by the cooling system, not the mechanical capability of the engine... the engine is capable of near 15hp with an enclosed tstat/pump/rad/fan controlled system.

so i guess it depends on what you want to do and what your needs really are, maybe the 165 is good for 3.5hp with hopper cooling, and maybe that is enough for your needs, maybe you can size a hopper with enough water to allow for good thermosiphon operation for your intended use, or...  maybe you find you would like to get 4 plus hp out of the engine?

in my way of thinking, simple has its place, but is highly over rated... simple is rarely as simple as some would have you to believe.

* yes i am a proponent of the enclosed, pump/tstat, fan/radiator system.

bob g

  My 1115/15KW stand by is set up with a fan switch and works to perfection.  I have built two others and also work perfectly.  Unlike engines that were made for thermosyphon cooling such as  the CS Lister the Chinese horizontals do not over circulate when you remove the hopper and add a plate. The engine will warm up fast with out a 'stat.  My switch turns on at 200 and off at 180 and will kick the fan on within 10 minutes of starting when placed under any load at all.  You need to set them up so the heated water going to the radiator comes from the cylinder head end of the plate. Likewise the return goes towards the crankshaft. You also need a short length of pipe under the plate on the return side. This assures the correct direction of circulation at ll times, without it you will find that at start up the system will occasionally try to circulate backwards and things can get REAL hot before correct circulation happens.  If it were me I would dispense with both pump and thermostat as unneeded items.

Hey Bob, a question for you...

I'm on the verge of actually being able to buy a '195 Changfa clone (Changfoid?) and have it imported in the UK. Fricking nightmare, what with the EU and its socialist rules... but anyway, that's a whole nother rant....

Engine is rated 12hp continuous. It's hopper cooled.

I plan to hoik the hopper off, and plumb it into a pressurised radiator system. I'll give it its own t-stat. Thing is, the system it'll be attached to is the cooling system for my bus - think 466cu/in diesel engine - so quite a large system. Depending on whether we just drove somewhere or not, the bus coolant might be hot, it might not be.

So, here's what's probably going to happen. I'll fire up the genny. The t'stat will open when the water in the engine gets hot, which will then pump out & be replaced by, potentially, cold water. Presumably the t-stat will now close & the whole cycle will repeat... I can't imagine this will be healthy for the engine; should I consider some other way of plumbing it?

Ade:

i will make a couple assumptions (usually getting myself into trouble in doing so)

your genny project which you plan to share the motorhome cooling system, the genny will be running while the motorhome
is parked and not running?

if this is so, then the engine (466) is not driving a fan, so maybe you connect a small electric fan to take the heat away from the radiator after the thing gets up to temp?

the larger radiator will take a while longer to come up to temp, however without airflow from the vehicle moving or the 466 fan drive sucking in air, i think it  would work just fine.

yes the engine will warm up and the tstat will begin to open, as it opens some of the cooler radiator water will start to get into the cylinder and mix, the tstat will then close off and heat up that batch... i don't think it will ever fully open until such time as the engine and radiator get over 195F or whatever your tstat is on the chanfa/oid.

i would just expect it to take maybe 20 minutes or so at full load before the electric fan kicks on to remove some of the heat from the radiator, that is at 70F ambient temps... a bit sooner on a 100F day and substantially longer on below freezing days.

playdiesel makes a good point in that the radiator and fan out to be enough to regulate the engine temperatures so there is no need for a tstat "provided" that the radiator and the rest of the cooling system is sized so that the engine can come up to a reasonable operating temperature as quickly as possible and not run cold with an oversize cooling system for any longer than is necessary.

my 195 at full load will come up to full operating temperature (first stage tstat controlled) at 195F in around 3minutes of startup, and then up to full and stable operation (cycling fan) from 205-214F in about 10 minutes iirc, (i may be off a couple minutes or so).

the point being is (for me at least) is to get the engine up to temp as quickly as possible,  cold temps operation accelerate wear and also tend toward a smokey exhaust.

back in the early days of the forums, there were many 6/1's running on 55 gallon siphon systems, and i often wondered just how long it took to get up to anywhere near a reasonable temperature?

my exhaust exchanger harvests the heat from full load output of 640F and exhausts at 240F on a 70F day.  that exchanger takes right at one hour to make 65 gallons of 145F water (starting from 70F water) my bet is the cooling system would do no better (at least not much if at all)  point being a siphon system with a 55gal capacity would be horrible mismatched in my opinion for a 12hp changfa (even if running at 15hp output)  so i am left to wonder how much wear a lister/oid might have to endure trying to get that much water up to temp on a basic thermosiphon system... maybe that is why most folks adapted a tstat to there systems?

i guess it all comes down to what one wants/needs/can tolerate?   there really is no "one" right way to do anything i suppose?

my point is to think through all the options and maybe do a pro/con analysis before you build, and figure out what makes sense, and... don't get spooked away from a full on modern system as being overly complex and anti KISS. Modern systems are very mature and developed with very low failure rates, surely no more prone to failure than any other method.

my opinion only

bob g

I gotta post some pis of my hardware i purchased  8) i got a 12v water pump, all the brass attachments, NPT drill and tap kits, heat gauges fans switch rely kit. Radiator from a dirt bike,  muffler,  1" exhuast flex pipe, i have a t stat but the engines to small to fit i ill show some pics soon  why, and i rather have a screw tight connection with a NPT barbed fitting. The cold water input is simple for the R165, the water drain port is big enouph for these engines, i got a brass fitting for it already to attach  a 5/8 heater hose. Ill make a stop plate to replace the hopper with 3/8 piece of steel, and drill tap three 3/8"  npt for hot water outlet, fan sensor ans heat gauge. Ok ill be posting more soon With pictures! I been waiting for more equipment to finish my diesel engine, i still gotta buy paint,  a mini alternator for fan, water pump, fuel pump, torque wrench and build a frame for it to sit on. Yeap lots to do still!    ;D

Quote from: mobile_bob on April 24, 2017, 11:31:51 AM
.......
back in the early days of the forums, there were many 6/1's running on 55 gallon siphon systems, and i often wondered just how long it took to get up to anywhere near a reasonable temperature?........

I've using a automotive gas tank, all the holes brazed up, and it's hanging from the rafters with an end sliced off. holds about 20 gal.   When charging batteries I'm using about 2700watts into the batteries.  The exit pipe of a 6/1 takes about 10 min to warm up, 30 min to get the top couple inches of the tank warm, and if I stir the tank with a stick, it takes about 90 min to get the whole 20 gal up to about 170F.   90 min is also when the batteries are usually full and I'm done charging.
Also, with this mode of operation, I burn a bit over a quart of fuel an hour (red diesel with some 2-stroke oil in it)

What Bob said about sizing the components is spot on. My first 1115 installation was just an experienced guess and it all worked out OK.  I use the same set up on a couple 195/ 10KW sets. Radiator is mid 90s Geo Metro (about $40 new) and fan temp switch is from same. I remove the spring and seal from the cap so the make up water can come and go from the overflow tube. Somewhat fuzzy pic is of my stand by set.  My concerns with a 'stat is not gulping as they do not work like a light switch being on or off, they work incrementally beginning to open at a certain temp and fully open at a higher temp, same as things coold down. My concern with a 'stat is knowing how they are made and dealing with vibration over long periods. 
(http://oi67.tinypic.com/22qfm.jpg)

Quote from: playdiesel on April 25, 2017, 05:33:23 AM
What Bob said about sizing the components is spot on. My first 1115 installation was just an experienced guess and it all worked out OK.  I use the same set up on a couple 195/ 10KW sets. Radiator is mid 90s Geo Metro (about $40 new) and fan temp switch is from same. I remove the spring and seal from the cap so the make up water can come and go from the overflow tube. Somewhat fuzzy pic is of my stand by set.  My concerns with a 'stat is not gulping as they do not work like a light switch being on or off, they work incrementally beginning to open at a certain temp and fully open at a higher temp, same as things coold down. My concern with a 'stat is knowing how they are made and dealing with vibration over long periods.  
(http://oi67.tinypic.com/22qfm.jpg)

Is this a thermosyphome system?  Nice setup! im hoping my waterpump and 5/8 heater hose arrives so i can have good pictures of the cooling system setup i though off. i still have to buy a grinder and some discs and cut out a stop plate, also for a strong design the stop plate will include a bracket for the mini alternator. It will work great i have a good feeling  :) Now i have one thing on my mind which was mentioned here by a fellow member, that the engine is so small the 12 water pump may circulate water to fast, the pumps flow rate is 8 litres per minute, i imagine the engines cooling systems water capacity with the radiator would be less then a litre. So it would circulate 9 or 10 times a minute, is that way to fast lol??  ;D

Heres a few pictures of the steel pieces to use for the water stop plate with the 3/8 NPT tap and 37/64 drillbit, the size of the radiator with the engine, and also a pic of the brass 5/8 barbed water return were the drain port once was.

Hey Guys,

One useful gadget for your cooling systems is this in-line temperature sensor/gauge adaptor.
In this case the ad is for a 1" (26mm) version.
Not very expensive at all.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/26MM-Water-Temp-Gauge-Radiator-Sensor-Aluminum-Adapter-Clamp-BL-/252537503945?fits=Submodel%3APulse&hash=item3acc6880c9:g:5NUAAOSwMHdXRmPI&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/26MM-Water-Temp-Gauge-Radiator-Sensor-Aluminum-Adapter-Clamp-BL-/252537503945?fits=Submodel%3APulse&hash=item3acc6880c9:g:5NUAAOSwMHdXRmPI&vxp=mtr)

They can also be used to place an inline sensor for something like an Arduino or Raspberry PI in order to control fans and high temp shutdown relays.

Veggie

Heres a few pics of my cooling system,  8) i need to build the top plate for the engine, im waiting for a 3/8 NPT to 5/8 barb brass connector for the water outlet, it be here soon got it on eBay from china. So heres what my setup will look like, im not using a thermostate the engines top plate is to small for the one i ordered anyways, it will regulate heat with the thermal fan switch, its a 195 to 210 F fan switch that will be on the water stop plate. You can see the small hot water pump, its 12v rated to last 40,000 hours amd with stand 110 c water. It has a ceramic shaft and brush less waterproof design for $20 new from china, built good i use these pumps before they even work for waste oil. I like how i manage to figure to have the radiator low profile i dont want the system big i want it compact and simple. I made it so it goes around the fuel injector and air intake. Im going to build the engines frame tommorow with wood becuase its easy to work with, and i work with new houses so wood materials are free ;D. I may use a few small sections of 2x4 and rig up some wheels and make it moblie like a small wagon  ;D you can see i used 2 Elbows pieces to direct the 5/8 heater hose so it wont cink, it works great! Of course ill be using hose clamps just not till the engines mount is made which will be happening this week!  ;) i also purchased a 25 foot roll of 1" ID exhaust flex pipe ill be using to attach a silent muffler, these engine are indeed very quiet like a car engine if the right muffler is used,  i did it once with my R170 diesel. Im also using 1.25 ID vacum cleaner tubing to relocate the air cleaner under the engine.  :)

More pics of cooling system for the little pixy R165 Diesel engine

I received another package today for my engine  ;D 8) its the flex exhaust pipe walker 40000 25ft of 1" ID flex pipe. I got it on amazon only place i can find it! And i only needed a couple feet so i guess i got lots extra! This will be used to have the muffler located off the engine.

Finally Im putting the engine mount together!  ;D Assembling the water cooling system and will soon be making the water stop plate and the alternator brackets. Next week ill buy the alternator! Im waitng for a few more parts and to arrive to complete the cooling system. I will be uploading more soon as this projects finally getting finished! I spent over a grand in this project and it still needs more haha! Alternator and some paint a few small gadgets and the projects finished!  8)

R165 engine mount cooling system

Today the engine thermostate arrived in the mail, i thought it was lost i bought it over 3 months ago from china and it just arrive today lol! I even got a refund back for it so i guess i got it for free! Im really happy becuase it will fit perfectly to the engine. It has the right space between the cylinder, and enouph space for the fan senor switch and heat guage sensor, i will post pictures later tonite and also the steps required to finish the water cooling system. I have eveything ready all i need is an angle grinder to cut the water stop plate from the peice of 3/8 scrap steel i recovered from tearing down old cattle stables.

For the cooling system i purchased all new parts, 12volt 4 inch radiator cooling fan, 195 to 210f npt fan shutoff sensor and relay kit, small compact dirtbike radiator, 5/8 radiator hose, thermostate, engine temp gauge with npt heat sensor,  12v heat resistant water pump, tap and drill kit for the npt connections. Im excited this is my first time doing a big project on an engine so this is really fun!

A question lol, do i need a overflow tank for the radiator?   ???

"A questions lol, do i need a overflow tank for the radiator?  "

yes!  i would sure recommend an overflow tank, that is if the radiator is made to use a cap that has the ability to suck the water from the overflow back up into the radiator when it cools down.

if you fill the system, and when it gets hot the water will expand, and in doing so will exit the radiator into the overflow
tank if you have one, or on the floor without the tank.

if it cannot be sucked back up when cool the water level will be low in the system.

set it up so that when you have the system completely full there is some water in the overflow, that way  you have an indication when cool how much water is in the system... if the tank level drops when cold below the minimum line you know you have a leak somewhere and must add water.

the little engine and tiny radiator will have a combined capacity of less than a gallon total, likely about 2 quarts, so you really cannot afford to lose much water without having an issue.

another case for overheat shutdown protection, but that is another matter.


bob g

Just in case you are not aware, You don't need a specific "Overflow Bottle".  I have used an old plastic Coke Bottle for years on my truck in place of the original which was in the way of adding a 2nd battery.  All you do need is the proper radiator cap with the return function and the hose from the radiator neck going to the bottom of the bottle.
There is also no correct height to fill the bottle. On my wife and Daughters cars I just fill the bottle and the radiator Full when I do check them or top them with coolant.  Any excess just pushes out and the system finds it's own level.  I'm not really worried about a bit of water pushing out the first time the thing hits temp. Only does it the once then it has it's level and all good. Just keep it at that level which should only require infrequent top ups for evaporation.

The bottle can be below the radiator neck, no specific height either as long as the hose on the neck is sealed to it so there are no air leaks.

You can also instead of a radiator/ pressurised system use a large header tank if this will be a permanent install or all mounted together.  I tend to favour this system because it's NOT under pressure. On my lister setup I have a "T" in the top hose to the radiator near the highest point. The hose goes straight through the T to the radiator and the other leg goes up to a 25L drum of water sitting well above the engine.  The drum has no cap and is open to atmosphere. This bleeds out all air from the engine cooling system and if there is a small leak, there is loads of water to keep the engine cool and let me notice.  It's surprising how hot the drum gets. The hot water really seems to rise with much more Vigor than I would have credited. The water in the radiator still gets hot but I only have one electric car fan running through a tail light globe as a resistor to cool it down and then it tends to over cool as well.

I would think there is a good chance a car radiator set at about a 45oTilt may not even need a fan on an engine the size of what you have when set up with a header tank. The surface area of the radiator itself would pass a lot of heat and if you had some sort of ducting convection would do the rest.  Other thing would be if you blew the exhaust  at the radiator from some distance away, that would cool substantially and create enough airflow to keep the thing cool but not cool so far as a fan sucking cold air.

Thanks for the tips guys!  ;D

Heres a few pics of the engines updated water cooling system, im still not finished, the extra metal is for the alternator mount!  i still have to install the fan heat sensor and engine temp sensor, they are both npt drill and tap, i  will write more info tommorow on how i made this water stop plate.  All i used was a few drill bits a carbide hole saw, angle grinder, and a scrap peice of steel  ;D 8)

R165 Diesel engine custom Water stop plate

Looking at the pictures, it appears that the top radiator hose goes above the radiator cap before entering the engine.  That will make it difficult to get the system full of water and purge the air out.  Remember that water won't run uphill.  You may have to either tilt the engine up on the radiator end or provide a fill port at the highest point.

Coolant system needs to be setup so that water will thermosyphon through it even of the water pump isn't functioning.

Thanks for the advice guys i was thinking the same thing, maybe if i just raise the radiator up high it would work, ill figure this out !  :)

if one is to take the forward step of a radiator, with a fan, a pump, tstat, recovery bottle and all the other regalia, why would he think it necessary to take a step back in his design thinking of going to a thermosiphon setup?

if the pump quits, it is going to be very difficult to get water past the impeller to maintain adequate flow for themosiphon to work.

in my thinking, and bare in mind this is my opinion only, i would not design in a failsafe to thermosiphon with such a small volume cooling system, far better to include any number of failsafe systems to simply shut the engine down should the engine coolant temp exceed a certain value.

but then again, i am of the camp that has little affinity for thermosiphon systems, even though the KISS principle is seductive in its simplicity, it is not without its own set of issues. issues which ought to have a failsafe to shutdown if the engine overheats as well.

bottom line is if one has an electric pump, electric fan, temp switches and all the other stuff, whats the problem with adding a bit more wire and a shutdown solenoid?

again, fwiw.

bob g

Quote from: mobile_bob on June 08, 2017, 02:45:47 PM

but then again, i am of the camp that has little affinity for thermosiphon systems, even though the KISS principle is seductive in its simplicity, it is not without its own set of issues. issues which ought to have a failsafe to shutdown if the engine overheats as well.

The little experience I have with thermo Syphon being my one roid engine has given me bit of a liking of it at least in a stationary environment which I seem to recall now is not the OP's plan in mind.
I like the idea of a non pressurized system that is way over capacity both in cooling ability and volume for the engine attached.
Playing with the roid, I was also quite amazed at how well the heater water rose and circulated. It was way beyond what I expected but I did do all I could to make sure things were as well setup for it as my reading lead me to believe was correct.
I'll probably go the thermo route again when I set the roid up in it's new digs for no other reason than I liked the way it worked, how well it worked and the simplicity thereof.

Quotebottom line is if one has an electric pump, electric fan, temp switches and all the other stuff, whats the problem with adding a bit more wire and a shutdown solenoid?

I only made comment on the other forum earlier this week that a bit of " Complication" is not a bad thing and can greatly improve the capeabilitys and well being of our old time  toys.

I have spoken before about using electric fans on radiators and there is certainly a position of fear from amny about the chance of that fan failing and causing engine damage.  Well yeah, tell me what doesn't have a chance of failing?
Reality is though that these fans are incredibly reliable in the real wold and last for literally tens of years.  I Have got them 20+ years old and run them 24/7 over  now 4 Summers and I'm still using the same unit.  I couldn't count the hours its done but I'll bet it would give out old faithful engines a run for their money.  Still, many, maybe the majority of people would throw their hands in the air with them claiming the dangers if they stop.
Personaly, I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about the hose carrying the coolant failing then the fans I use off vehicles.

Same with electric pumps and other things. look at the service they give in their intended applications in vehicles or as domestic hot water circulation pumps.  How many years do they run without problem and how many hours does that add up to?
Now, how many hours are you going to run that engine per year?

It's like something I worked out years ago with my Contractor mates commercial quality Lawn mowers. The average person here mows their lawn about 15 times a year on average. My mate mows an average of 10 lawns a day.
Given the amount of lawns he mows with his machines, they would last the average person about 150 years PLUS!.... if they serviced them properly like he does which her average person doesn't come close to.

I'm reminded of the Mindset among the Veg oil/ Biodiesel  users and their mentality. Always trying to find fuel hose that will last an eternity and pay stupid  $$ for it.
Myself, I use the cheap shit. It testing with careful observation, I know I can get at LEAST 18 Months out of it..... So I change it every 12.
When I do my Major service between Christmas/ new year where I do the diff and trans oils and all that other infrequent stuff, I spend the princely sum of $4 on the Vinyl reinforced hose and change out the 18 " or so of it that's on the vehicle between the hard lines.  Never had a problem with that in the over 10 years since I adopted the policy.
It's just like the aircraft servicing mentality. Change it out BEFORE it fails and at relatively short terms. Don't try and get forever out of it, change it short of it's service life and be happy.

If one were running there engine every day and relied on it, A fan from the wreckers for $20 would not be any great yearly expense nor would an electric pump, hoses or anything else.  For those engines run for the fun of it, chances are things are going to last longer than we will so whats the worry??

AND.... I agree with what you say, just add in a failsafe. A switch that shuts the engine down if it goes over temp or over speed or whatever else.  Put in a backup and you are fine.
I'm looking at automating one of my veg oil burners to shut down when the water it is heating comes up to temp.  My soloution will be to run 2 temp switches in parallel. If either one of them senses the water is up to temp, it switches out. If one sticks, I still have backup. If both should fail, then the double relief valves will activate and the cool water coming in will keep the tank from building up steam even if the system does cycle till the burner runs out of fuel.....  which with a small " Day" tank will be yet another fallback.

I think with everything there is like a 20+ year lag between opinion and reality.  Old misnomers that are long out of date tend to get repeated and perpetuated long after in many cases they become laughable.
One thing I come into contact with this a lot is with cars.  can't tell you how many people will come in in a month and rubbish automatic cars as being weak, unreliable, expensive to repair and using gallons more fuel than a manual.
The reality is that autos have wiped the floor with manuals for getting on for 20 years. They have wiring looms connecting them to the engine and cars computer so they work as efficently as possible. Autos are bullet proof and will take far more power and abuse than manuals generally and need nothing like the maintenance and servicing. I take these people round the side and show them the pile of auto transmissions we have and frequently the heap of them sitting on the pile for the scrappy. I then show them the waiting list we have for people wanting manuals.  I ask them why do you think we sell 1-2 autos a year that at least one is a mis diagnosis and can't get our hands on enough manuals to satisfy demand.  I then tell them to go look at new car numbers on the net and see that many autos are now doing BETTER mileage than manuals.

Same goes for electronic controls, injection etc. Nope, when it came out 30 years ago it was flakey so there is no possibility it could have improved over the years so it still much be the same.
Korean cars are looked at the same way. Nope, they were crap when they came out and they could not have possibly learnt anything in all these years and improved them, they are still crap....despite the fact they offer the longest warranties and owners that have had them 10 years say they haven't had an ounce of trouble and would buy another one without thinking twice.

Still, there are some people you can't convince and will stick with their incorrect position I think in many cases rather that change their minds or admit they were wrong.

I think there is a LOT to be gained by applying modern technology, systems and methods to our old and basic Chuggers and those really concerned about reliability are doing themselves a dis service by hanging onto the old mindsets.  The modern ( 10-20 yr yo modern) technology leaves the old 50+ tech for dead when it comes to reliability and dependence especially in what we are doing and can do with it.

Glort and all...

please don't take offense to my comments, i mean no ill will toward anyone and especially none against differing design
philosophies.

my point is slanted likely toward the closed system, because of the following

1. chp use only
2. intermittent operation
3. tight operating parameters
4. controlled operation parameters

given these, the thermosiphon design really doesn't fair well against one that is both closed, and using electric pumps, fans, and all the other stuff.

there is much to be said for thermosiphon systems, when given more room, long run hours, and simplicity are the main concerns.

in an intermittent operation system, one needs a quite small capacity cooling system that is both closed and controlled, so that warm up time is as small as possible to aide in clean exhaust, lower component wear, and in my experience better overall efficiencies.

with the onerous guidelines we have given to us here in the usa, (epa) my thinking is we simply must think more toward closed systems and intermittent operations in tightly controlled conditions so as to limit the emissions as much as possible while trying as hard as possible to get maximum efficiency.

to be honest "if" i were out in the sticks, had a supply of alternate fuel, i might well operate with a simple system using thermosiphon systems.... lets face it the lister/oid really is most at home using this sort of design.

the changfa types while being at home with thermosiphon designs really are quite well adapted to being used in a much more modern closed system design, and in reality the efficiency gains are significant enough that at least for me are of large enough to warrant a much more complex system.

going from about ~8kw/hr/gallon pump diesel to very very near 10kw/hr/gallon sure gets my attention, on top of the ability of being able to burn alternate fuels cleanly at the higher operating temperatures combine to be a very seductive attraction to me.

but that is just me.

and again my hope is not to stifle any others thinking in any way.

having seen Jack Belk's operation of a 6hp listeroid at magic hotsprings some ten years ago, (many remember him as "magicjack"  he did very very well with thermosiphon, as has George B of utterpower fame, and many others in canada and all over the world are evidence of just how effective and useful this design philosophy really is.

however just how many car's, trucks, and all manor of stationary engines operating over the better part of the last century provide evidence that closed systems need not be trouble prone, certainly no more so that thermosiphon systems.

probably 100 times more engines over as many years have operated successfully with simple closed systems, fan/stat/radiator and little maintenance.

so i guess we can argue either philosophy and so so reasonably and with equal success?

bob g

fan motors failing? hmmm

the condenser unit sitting in my back yard has been working it ass off since '74 and i finally had to change out the fan motor
last month... what is that, 43 years?  with plain brgs!  wow

my s195 trigen at full operating capacity, putting out around 8kw electric, its fan that is used to cool the radiator when the heat load demand has been met, will cycle on for 45 seconds out of every 3 minutes of operation... it is out of a nissan sentra vintage '87.... so it was 30 years old when i got the wrecked car and pulled the radiator, fan, temp switches and other goodies... my bet is that fan motor would run in cogen operation for another 30 years because it is sitting out in cool air and not under the hood and between the radiator and engine of a car.

people in my opinion get far too worried about component failure,

a well designed system has the failsafe in place, using positive logic controls... loose power and the engine shuts down.

which means the fuel solenoid has to have power to enable the engine to run, any break in the solenoid control relay circuit equates to engine shutting down immediately.  too hot =shut down, broken wire= shut down, loss of power=shutdown, loss of oil pressure= shutdown... anything you can dream up to break the circuit =shutdown. and by that i mean shutdown immediately,  which means far faster than is humanly possible even if you are sitting at the switch watching the gauges.

with the oem's making all manor of pumps, fans, controls, sensors, switches, relays etc.... at very competitive prices.. made to last for thousands of hours in very inhospitable environments under the hood of the typical car/truck or whatever... its hard for me to imagine a real argument against the use of these things.

worry about component longevity?  check your local wrecking yard.... if you see a particular part missing of a specific car type then maybe there is a large demand for that specific part and it has poor reliability?  on the other had if the place is swimming in a particular fan or pump... and they are cheap as dirt, it is likely there is little or no demand which likely equates to a part being very reliable?

no if you are looking at a yugo all bets are off  :)

however most japanese car parts, gm, ford, and most german cars i have found the used parts to be very reliable

even the bosch auxilliary heater pumps as used by vw, audi, mercedes and probably many others back in the 80's at least
have been exceptionally reliable..... even those i have bought where the system is full of stopleak or somesuch, full of rust
and stuck impeller, rusted off case screws, i have drilled out and replaced the screws, cleaned the pump impeller and body and they go right back to work and i have had only one that had a minor drip leak when running , but only up till the water got hot then it would quit the little drip...

no i didn't use that particular pump, but i would if i didn't have another and i would not worry about coolant loss, even though my system is only 1 gallon in capacity! why?   because if the coolant gets low and the engine gets over 220f the system shuts the fuel solenoid down which = engine shutdown..

for those that are thinking about or worrying about coolant loss, and overheating

there is a sensor that turns on a low coolant light.... that sensor can be used to trigger the system to shutdown
it can also be used to not allow the engine to startup (if autostart) should the coolant level be low in the overflow tank/bottle.

it is so easy to add multiple layers of protection, and do so very economically.

how many of us turn our wife or kid loose with a car to go on an extended trip?  we all know they typically never look at the gauges even if they are there to look at!   and somehow these cars get from a to b, and back again? over and over, year after year, and i know of no car that has a shutdown system to protect the engine.

i don't know about most folks but my car is worth a bit more than my changfa!  so if i trust the car, why would i worry about some component failure on my cogen unit?

we are after all in the 21st century! 

hmmm maybe we can develop an app for the smartphone to keep tabs on the engine while we are gone?  :)
we get a text message if things are going wrong!  ya that's the ticket!

bob g

Wasn't counting a whole lot of thermosyphon to provide coolant flow. It's just basic engineering to design a system where water can "run downhill on it's own" rather than depend on being pumped uphill.

Quote from: mobile_bob on June 09, 2017, 11:51:18 AM

please don't take offense to my comments, i mean no ill will toward anyone and especially none against differing design
philosophies.

None EVER Taken!

I like having differing POV brought up. Makes you aware of the other ways to skin a cat, makes you think through the pros and cons of your present way of thinking and you always learn something new.
I have no problem with pressure systems either and i think the points you made especially with CHP are more than valid.
As always, it's a matter of horses for courses and I think the more strings one has to ones Bow the better.  Adapt and apply the technology that suits your particular application or need best.  As I said, I have only done the thermo siphon thing on my lister, every other setup I have done is the normal radiator/ fan waterpump deal.  I probably did the Thermo thing through curiosity more than anything.  I was well aware heat rose but I had no idea hot water rose THAT well!

Besides the Roid I'd like to set up the Mercedes Diesel engine I pulled from my beloved " Helga" W123 some years ago now with the idea of sizeable generator in mind.  I'll set that up as co gen and I'll certainly be going the pressurized route on that one.

Quote
having seen Jack Belk's operation of a 6hp listeroid at magic hotsprings some ten years ago, (many remember him as "magicjack"  he did very very well with thermosiphon, as has George B of utterpower fame, and many others in canada and all over the world are evidence of just how effective and useful this design philosophy really is.

I have read of this place and the mans adventures and efforts with it. Must have been something in its day as bad as its energy efficiency was.

Quotet is out of a nissan sentra vintage '87.... so it was 30 years old when i got the wrecked car and pulled the radiator, fan, temp switches and other goodies... my bet is that fan motor would run in cogen operation for another 30 years because it is sitting out in cool air and not under the hood and between the radiator and engine of a car.

My experience and belief exactly. I Run these fans 24/7 for months at a time and several  times over now and still not a hint of a problem. As you say, they are not sitting in an enclosed space the way we use them being subject to summer heat soak temps when the engine is switched off or having scorching heat blowing through them all the time. In a vehicle, they are turning the great majority of the time even if not powered up because they start windmilling as soon as the car hits any suburban road speed let alone highway cruising. This would have to put wear on the brushes and bearings but still they survive such long lives.

Quotepeople in my opinion get far too worried about component failure,

So you have Dabbled in the veg oil game have you mate? :0)
I could never get over the mindset of people with that.  The expense, complication and really, stupidity they went on with did my head in.  They were trying to make what they did failure proof forgetting the rest of the vehicle wasn't built like that and and endless myriad of OEM systems and components could bring their obsession to a very pointless end.

Seemed everyone wanted to go to a LOT of trouble to build in 2 fuel systems. Thought being that if one failed, you still had one to get home on. Over the years I would ask, who ever had the fuel system fail and if it did, was the other side still working?  Very few failures ( other than a blocked filter which could have been change by the road and my 12yo did it many times for me) and the ones I did get feed back on were in a shared component, like the change over valve they installed, so the 2nd system was in fact useless.

The obsession so many people had actually made the vehicles far more prone to failure. Every bit of hose, every fitting, filter, hose clamp, valve etc was in fact another potential failure point. Only took a bit of hose to come loose and let air in the system and the car came to a stop. Don't know how many reports of that I read but still I could never tell people the closer to stock the better. Of course mine being that way, I was told how it wouldn't work or would fail.... even notably by 2 different people who did have their over complicated systems fail and I got them going by bypassing 90% of the rubbish they had put in.... which they promptly re-connected as soon as they found the particular failure point that brought them undone and added some more fallback complication and failure points to the setup.

The thing that REALLY got me was the inordinate efforts to fix problems that were completely imaginary.
Every time they would be mentioned, I'd ask, " Who here has first hand knowledge of this actually occurring? Not something your read or the guy next doors workmates cousins sisters husbands best friend, but you have had or personally in the flesh seen.
Not one single person ever came forward but it never once deterred people for going to great lengths, expense and complication trying to solve this Imagined and well spoken of problem that in several years I could NEVER find one person to put their hand up and say yeah it happened to me or I saw and worked on my mates car that had that.

But as always, because I bucked the system and didn't do the same as everyone else because I thought my own circumstances through and did what suited them ( Used another Fuel filter I get for free and kept everything else stock) , -I- was always the one going to blow up my engine and have problems.  You think after 15 years it would have happened. I'm getting sick of waiting for it!  :0)

Quoteworry about component longevity?  check your local wrecking yard.... if you see a particular part missing of a specific car type then maybe there is a large demand for that specific part and it has poor reliability?  on the other had if the place is swimming in a particular fan or pump... and they are cheap as dirt, it is likely there is little or no demand which likely equates to a part being very reliable?

SPOT ON!
We don't bother taking fans out any more. Got draws full of coolant sensors and bunches of other things. We throw perfectly good transmissions away because we sell about 2 a year and you can bet that 1 of them is some dope mechanic mistaking the Tranny for a bad CV or Hub.  The other one will be because someone was trying to tow an over weight horse float or caravan at full tilt up every mountain in the middle of a heat wave and didn't have a tranny cooler fitted.  Other than that, we try to only buy manuals now because those gearboxes we sell faster than we can get them and the autos go to the scrap heap.  You keep 3 of every one, how many more you need sitting round.  Alternators are the same. Sell 2 a year. Maybe. last 2 I sold I noticed the engine bays were very clean.  When I asked if they had degreased them I was told yes, just before the alt started playing up. I usually find they put water on the alt when it was running which is what stuffs them up. I have alts sitting out in the rain for years and never bothered them.

Anyway, you are absolutely spot on with what you say Bob.  The most reliable things are what there are plenty of in the wrecking yard because they don't fail so you get no call on them.
people see what we put in the scrap pile and say Why don't you take that off, it's still good. You point to the 20 you have in stock and say I'll sell you one really cheap but you never get any takers.

Quoteand i know of no car that has a shutdown system to protect the engine.

And wouldn't that be about the best thing they could put on them instead of all the crap they do!

We do Subaru. 9 out of 10 engines we sell ( or more) are due to:
A: Holeing the radiator or splitting a hose and either not seeing the warning light or temp gauge or seeing them and just wanting to drive another 25Km till they get home, OR
B: Running out of oil because they never check it or just as popular, not tightening the sump plug after an oil change and loosing all the oil and seeing the light come on and.... Just wanted to drive another 25 km till they got home.  And no, women aren't the worst, Older people who should know a damn site better are.

You also would not believe how many people we have sold engines to and they have come back within the 3 month warranty period trying to claim the engine was no good when they did the self same thing again!
You see that little round thing there on the head like a lifesaver? That's a heat tell tale.  Tells us the head got to 130oC. Only way that can happen is if you loose oil or water or both.
And you'd be amazed how many bring the cars back with the signs of the coolant still sprayed all over the engine and engine bay.... or the oil is still dripping from under the car and there's no hole in the sump even thought he thing is locked up tight.
Some people are not only not too bright, their stupidity takes some fathoming!  :0)

We see engines with 4 and 500 K Km on them that are still fine if they are looked after. Had one with a tad over 500k Km and it still had the hone marks in the bores.  Amazing.

Quotehmmm maybe we can develop an app for the smartphone to keep tabs on the engine while we are gone?  Smiley
we get a text message if things are going wrong!  ya that's the ticket!

You might be amazed how easy that could be with something like an arduino. It's not even something that would be considered mildly difficult. The boards and programing are out there. Use a wifi shield and link it up and you are there.  For anyone half knowledgeable about these things, I'd say they'd call it pretty easy.

Thanks for the ideas and comments everyone!  

Im going to stay with my original hose pressurized thermostate cooling system. Im going to buy a small 350ml aluminum overfill bottle on ebay and attach a small clear heater hose to the system so i have a view of the waters level.
Last night before bed I managed to sneak time in and managed to drill out a 37/64 hole and tap a 5/8 NPT thread in the water stop plate for the rad fan sensor. I have a relay kit for the rad fan for allowing the engine to stay at proper temp. I also will be installing another sensor in the water stop plate for the engines temprature gauge. I don't really like the wooden frame i know it will fall apart after so many hours so i will use metal down the road lol ;D

Rite now i just want to see it run but im not doing anything till its finished, no point running a diesel unless its loaded so i will need to get a small mini alternator and mount it to the water stop plate. It will be belted with the flywheel so i can bet alot of power off the engine when its running at lower RPM.  The flywheels pulley will be fully vacant to be used. Heres some pics of alittle progress of the water stop plate :)

I think it would be easy to install a float switch in a seperate chamber for incase the water level droppes in the radiator the engine will shut down ? I checked  ebay they sell for $1 to $10 for different types...    

Anyone think mounting the radiator to the engine is a bad idea?  ???  I have a few ideas to mount it but I think the vibrations could kill it lol! ive seen engines with radiators mounted, even my 4.5 hp Kubota diesel has a engine mounted rad. Im just up for ideas, i most likely will be sticking to my orginal plan and have it mounted separately off the engine. Im planning on raising the radiator up higher so air can be purged out when needed.

remote mount or isolation mount, anything to protect it from the engines destructive vibration would be the way i would go.

bob g

Quote from: glort on June 09, 2017, 12:52:03 AM

Korean cars are looked at the same way. Nope, they were crap when they came out and they could not have possibly learnt anything in all these years and improved them, they are still crap....despite the fact they offer the longest warranties and owners that have had them 10 years say they haven't had an ounce of trouble and would buy another one without thinking twice.

I buy only old British cars (Jaguar mainly), but that's because I'm a bloody-minded idiot who loves being stranded at the side of random roads  ;D

(In fairness, my 2001 Jag XJR has been almost entirely reliable, and has never actually got me stuck anywhere, although a couple of times I've wondered if it'd make it.... When it does work, which is most of the time, it goes like stink, I love it).

I changed the cooling system, what you see it it slapped together i will have to make sure its nice and straight and more ridged to hold the radiator nice and stiff. Im also going to carriage bolt the engines wooden mount together so its able to last.    Heres a few pics.

Heres a few pics of the water plate and thermostate

does the tstat housing use a gasket or does it seal with a rubber perimeter seal around the tstat itself?

if the latter you will likely need to seal the bolts as they will leak unless you weld the heads under the plate.
or figure another way to seal the bolts

bob g

Hi Bob, i should of mentioned that i did thought of the bolts. I used a type of bolt that has a flat bottom with some thread tape and gasket material washers i made. Im sure it will work great!!  

And yes the thermostate has a seal ring!

Heres a few pics of the cooling system with the hose clamps,. Still lots of trail and error ! So far i have a few more ideas!  ;D

My worthless suggestion would be to brace that radiator support Diagonaly from the top back down to the engine bolts seceuring to the board.

I think the way you have shown it in the pics will set up harmonics and the thing will vibrate then flap bauout and be noisy and work loose.  I think some Diagonal bracing would be worthwhile.
It looks great though, worlds best prepared and over engineered 165. Going to be too good to use it for taking around on practical jobs when you are done. Perfect for hooking up to an alternator and putting a chair and coffee table nearby and just sit back and watch and admire it run.   :0)

Yes glort thats right! I want to see it run its been over half a year ago since i purchased it!  Yes i had it in mind the metal frame will litterly fall apart if i dont bolt it all together and add some cross bracing. lm at the stage were before its all put together i can make everything more compact first.  im going to move the radiator about an inch closer to the engine and drop it down another half inch. With it being summer out having all these nice days,  i dont like being in my basement working on the engine till its late and dark outside, so an hour before bed is all i put into it every few days. I dont have much left to do now it just needs an alternator attatched, the piston reistalled, paintjob, all nuts and bolts torqued tight with torque wrench, and thats about it!  Building this engine was really slow but its coming along lol. The total cost for materials and spare parts exceeded the price of the engine for sure!! I think almost a $1000 got invested  ;D  :-X  :o  :).

 I did alot of online studying with the S195 diesels and the R165 for comparison,  ive never actully had any changfa diesel sized over the R170  ::) , I just assuming but maybe someone would know better, I think all the materials used to manufacture these Big and small changfa type engines are the same. The fuel injector on my R165 will work on some S195  diesels so they can be universal. The cylinder camshaft crankshaft piston, rings, cylinder head, valves, valve guides, gears bearings and so on,  they are must be made with the same metals. So what im going by here is i believe if the S195 can last for over 10,000 or maybe 25,000 hours run time why cant my little changfa run for at least 5,000 to 10,000 Hours before needing an over haul?  I have many spare parts! I will be including a forced oil pump and oil filter later on.  ;D

I will be updating the engine mount after a few test runs, I have an idea of using 2 small bike tires to make it more portable. But for some reason in my head I picture it hopping around the place so time will tell when I have it running to know!  :)

 8) New updates will be coming soon!! New alternator, completed pressurized water cooling system, engine enamel paint, exhuast and air intake system and much more! ;D

Im still behind on my diesel project! But i only need 3 more things to complete it! An alternator which will cost $160, $75 for a torque wrench and $110 for the engine paint.  I manage to rebuild a new water stop plate because i used a hand drill for the first one i made, the holes were not drilled straight so i bought a drill press and made a new stop plate. ,you can see in the picture that i installed the rad sensor switch "red" and the smaller sensor is for the engine temp gauge so i can see the operating temp of the coolent  ;D I have to plug off the 3/8 npt hole You can see i have a bolt resting in it, it was for the temp guage sensor when i had a 1/8 to 3/8 npt adapter but i didnt like it becuase it stuck out of the engine to far and might make the temp gauge inaccurate. So i got a 1/8 npt tap and drill kit to install it directly to the stop plate. I finished the coolant system! Just need the alternator engine paint and torque it all up! Yeap its taking awhile but i been excited for almost the last year to have this thing running with supreme parts  8) i finally got my exhaust flange from ebay!  And the exhaust flex pipe works great !

Changfa R165 Diesel cooling system

R165 Diesel

Quote from: Jesse McB on August 05, 2017, 05:48:00 PM$110 for the engine paint.  

$110 for paint???

You are either painting the engine from a ship or doing this one in gold leaf!
Sounds a lot of money for an engine that would take about 250Ml of paint if that!  How come so much?

Looks like is coming along nice and getting closer to completion all the time. At least doing it slowly you are doing it right.

Lol yeah its pricy but ill have a good paint job! The amount of work im putting into this i might as well make sure the end results are good! Ill have tonnes of paint left i can use for other things.  Im buying the por 15 engine painting kit it comes with everything complete start to finish.

Glort, did you manage to get the replacement cylinder for your air ooled dieael?

i purchased more parts Just a few days ago, 2 sets of valve kits, the small parts for the cylinder head like valve retaining clips and a few other various parts,

No mate, I have done nothing about it so far.
I'm in the middle of moving house atm and wanted to leave it till after I got settled. For one thing I wasn't sure how long I would be here for where to send the stuff but mainly I thought I had more to worry about for a while.

I am literally having anxiety attacks trying to get out of here. I have a new understanding of mental illness and I mean that in sincerity.  The amount of crap I have accumulated has just dawned on me and been a real slap to the face with a shove. I'm working night and day to get rid of it but progress is painfully slow and I can't see me getting it done in time.
I looked at this shit every day and did not realise how far I had let things go nor how gone in the head I had become. The shit is just endless and it's taking so long to make any impression on it.

The little engine was one of the first things to go tot he new place and I will get it fixed up. It's still my favourite ( don't tell the lister guys that!) and I do want it up and running again.
As blasphemous  as it is, I may well have to cut the engine collection down but that one will be staying. Might be I only keep that one and the lister and If I had to keep just one, that would probably be it.

Of course if I could get a bigger horozontal, I'd be all over that too even if I did have to unload some others. I just bought 2 new Chinese verticals, both electric start which is nice and I may get rid of a couple of the old Pull starts I have.  I'm not far from a river so toying with the idea in my stressed mind about building a small plywood basic boat and putting one of the vertical diesels in that so I can go exploring the river.

I'll get a Cylinder, rings, Injector and pump for the 165. I found the box of spares the thing came with the other day. Rings, bearing, gaskets, flywheel spanner, filters etc.
They sure mean these things to be used a long time.  Can't think of anything you get rebuild parts with these days.

Glort do you live in  Australia?  Its hear its easy to import the chiniese diesel engines from china to Australia, and the shipping is much cheaper since Australia is much closer to china then us canadians. Thats so cool you got 2 more diesels i wish they were more abundent in canada, i would like to find a R175 diesel they be nice for a decent diesel dune buggy  ;D but i would probly never come across one lol. So im feeling lucky with R165, and the fact its the smallest produced water cooled diesel engine makes it feel more special  8)
Yoycart.com is the only website that i can find on this planet that sells all the parts for my engine, its a young website like only 2 years old so thats why im buying as many parts as i can before they magically disappear :D  maybe tbey wont disappear but i can imagine them stop selling engine parts the website is  mainly meant for clothing lmfao! But they have the best prices for parts and i never had a problem buying from them i made at least 8 orders and everything came as expected!

So i purchased the por 15 engine painting kit, its meant to paint a car engine so ill have plently left for other projects.  Its a full kit, comes with Solvent, POR-15 Cleaner Degreaser, POR-15 Metal Prep, POR-15 primer, POR-15 Engine Enamel (ford t bird red), Paint Brushes, Safety face mask, Latex surgical gloves. Im gonna take my time and make sure this engine looks perfect lol.

Well i got my engine painting kit!   ;D

So they sent me the wrong color engine enamel, i asked for ford t bird red, they sent me black enamel instead, so i emailed them whats up and they sent me a pint of ford t bird red enamel for free! It should be delivered tommorow! Im happy now i got black enamle to paint with aswell!  8) ill use the black for the valve cover, fuel pump and fuel injector and perhapes a few other things.

Well the ford red enamel just arrived, i had to package and send off the black enamel back to them with the delivery guy, lol i thought i scored a free can of black enamel but ohwell haha. I actully dont need it as i have the black primer that comes with the kit, i hear  its glossy and looks good aswell. Today its very damp out and cloudy it be perfect to paint the engine, por 15 paint dries from humidity not from heat or dry air. But i didn't make plans today so i may hold out till i have a day reserved just to paint it, i dont want to have to stop painting in the middle or it might get screwed up lol. So ill will have enouph paint left over to paint another engine if i were to come across another haha!!!!  :D If anyone has a R175 for sale let me know  ::)

Rite now im ready for the priming of the engine, i dissasembled the engine, then i did the prep grease cleanup and metal prepping solvent. Now everything's all taped and ready! So i put the tape on the gasket surfaces, then with a smooth metal object like my socket wrench i rubbed the edge of the corners to "cut" the tape perfectly,  ;) And for other spots i used a small fine sharp utility knife.

Heres a few pics before i start the priming

I also got a few more parts haha, 2 spare fuel injector plunger and barrel sets, and 2 injector nozzel sets!   ;D

R165

The engines painted !! Heres a few pics before i fully assemble it, the paint is dry!!! It looks so shiny it looks wet haha!! Its looking very good id say!

R165

Hers a few more pics after some touchups

I do believe you, Sir, are an overachiever. ;D
Ron.

Thank you Ron :) I like to take it to the fullest and best i can with what i have for resources when i do a project ;D
This project is only possible because im taking my sweet ass time, right now im just waiting a good week for the paint to harden up, its very dry now! Then ill be installing the alternator, so ill have to buy that then a torque wrench to finalize everything.  :D

As purdy as that engine is, how are you going to bring yourself to run it?

Yes i know how you feel Tom, it feels like this engine should be used for a particular task, mayby a small car - buggy with interior cab, i can use the heat off the engine to heat the cab up during winter driving.

Im actully eager to run it i think it should last over 2000 hours before needing a overhaul, maybe it will last 5000 hours? Who knows lol If i take good care of it  ;D The paint job will last the longest i can say that!!

It dont cost much for parts to rebuild these smaller diesel engines so im not worried :)

If you maintain it well, in 5000 hrs it will be broken in.
Ron.

I got the alternator!!  :) , its a new honda 110 amp, they are slightly more smaller then average alternators so its great for this project, its got a 5 ribb serpentine Pulley, im not worried about efficiency ATM  ;D  Now all i gotta do is mount it on the engine and buy a torque wrench to properly torque the main bolts to spec.  I can't wait to see this engine running!  ;D Im still thinking of all the uses for it!!  

Yeah it be nice if it last 5000!  ;D :o

I got myself a 170F today.  It's a 5/ 5.5 hp on the nameplate, depending how hard you rev it.
Seems a curious little engine. has electric start but no alternator or charging devise I can see.  Only started it off a jump pack today so maybe there is an output somewhere but I highly doubt it. Only wiring I can see is to the start switch from the starter motor. It does have a first position with " Prepare" on it which made me go looking for a glow plug but it's obviously a universal type switch.

Doesn't seem as heavy as my 165 but must be with that big lump of a starter on it. I have seen similar size starters on cars literally.
Also has a crank start fitting on the end of the shaft but there was no starter handle with it.

The thing is a Swan brand and going by the paint job, looks to me like it would be about 80's vintage which being Chinese probably means it's a 2015 Model.  :0) I don't think it's done much work. No oil leaks, no slop in anything, starts easy Now I bled the fuel system.... Nice engine.
It has that great horizontal sound which I so much prefer over the verticals.  Sort of went a bit mad on those lately finding some going cheap.  Now I have 5 all up. The new ones were electric start so I'll find a new home for the recoils. Not that I ever had any trouble with that on them.

I'll probably couple this engine up to a couple of 80A alts and see how they go with the microgroove pulleys on them with teh V pulley on the engine.  If the belt won't drive I'll have to try and find some V pulleys for the alts.
I wish there were interchangeable V pulleys for these engines. I'd like about a 5" pulley for the alts so they could be driven at lower engine speed to still make a good 20-30a a lot more quietly.

I bought a Tiller and a chipper the last couple of weeks but they both have Vertical engines or I'd look at putting this one on.  There is another type Of chipper I am interested in that usually comes with a petrol engine and is belt drive so would be real easy to convert to proper diesel power.
I only see a few of these a year come up here and they are normaly about as far away as they can get or as over priced so as to make one laugh.  I was very surprised this one was up for sale for so long before I got it.
Owner was bit of a dick when trying to deal with him so probably put people off.  Ended up I got it for $150 which was half what he initially had it for and told me there was no way in hell he'd let it go for under $250 when I offered him $200. He was hard to communicate with so I thought I'd let it go till I saw the thing relisted again.
Had a friend offer him the 150 after a few weeks and he took it.


I think you'll find the alternator a good match for your engine Jessie.  Gearing should be about right. People seem to underestimate the power of engines and over estimate the drag of alts and subsequently under gear things.  I have had a 6" pulley on both 5 and 6 Hp Diesels and petrol engines over driving alts and they work fine. many people I see on YT all seem to run the alt 1:1 on a 5-6 Hp engine.
far as I can calculate, a car alt needs about 3.5 Hp.  5 is plenty to over drive it and make more power at less RPM as experience has repeatedly proven.

With your engine, the pulley ratio should be pretty right out the box. Unless you are pulling loads of power and have the battery pretty low, you won't make full power anyway.  Alts are more about 30-40A at low speed than they are 100A at full tilt.  If your engine is doing about 2600 rpm, you should be in the sweet spot for the alt.  You can bump the output a bit by keeping the field wire externally energized.
I have run car alts to a battery and then through an inverter. Not terribly efficient but relatively cheap and has the upside that you don't need to run the engine all the time for low power loads. 
Alternatively, you can run it pretty slow and get just the power you need.

Wow nice to hear all about the engine glort! Id wounder how the engine would sound like? They have alot of similar parts that can be used for my engine like the injector pump and injector. I wounder if the piston from a r170 will fit a 170f diesel?  How much does the engine weight? I weighed  my r165 and its over 80 pounds just the engine, its a heavy thing for its size!!!  And they still hop around when running  ;D  you should check the inside for casting sand, look at the valve pushrod gallerys they can be a mine full of sand waiting to spread out. I did a very good look for sand and found nothing till i actully gutted the engine, i was shocked to find about a large heaping tablespoon of sand in the rod galleries, i spent a few hours cleaning it all out using lights mirrors picks and wire brushed till not a single grain was left. Honestly i can say i did about enough hours work and time that id say this engine is half made in canada now lol!!!!  ;D

Yes im planning to run the engine around 1500 to 1800 rpm whatever is the sweet spot for it to run, i havent used a R165 yet so i will have to figure  that out. The alternator will be spinning quite fast at full rpm but i wont use full power all the time just here and there. In a matter of fact im Eager to see how this engine runs with its power curve! Just like how bob g did his tests with the s195 diesel ill like to due similar tests  with this engine. Like how low of a load do i need for proper running temp, will the engine keep warm while idling? I think its so small, and with the small water volume cooling system it should heat up within a few min.  During assembly of the engine i had to purchase 3 cylinder sleeves, reason is i bought 1 and put a piston ring inside and saw a gap on one side, found out the cylinder got dropped or struck with a blunt object causing the inside bore to oval   :( so i ordered 2 more sleeves from the supplier, just incase ones damaged at least ill have one!! So when they arrived i check with a piston ring a used a bright light to look for side clearance, turned out one cylinfer was junk as well  >:(, but the other one was perfect!   ::)  so i have 4 sleeves, the original which is still good just had a deep score running along the bottum half. 2 damaged sleeves and the good one thats in the engine. I find that among the 4 one is very shiny and looks like very hardend metal, to bad its one of the crushed damaged ones lol , not sure what type of metal  iron steel? But just saying that some sleeves may last longer then others!

Also another thing to mention, both my engines R170 and R165, after assembly when i turn the flywheel over to feel the compression i noticed the engine would make a loud click when turning through  compression., turn out after a few hours looking on the R165 confused,  i figured it out! Simple! The piston is aluminum the cylinder is iron so the piston will have slightly more clearance to make up for aluminium's expansion rate. This allowed some movement of the piston slapping,  this only happened when the engine has no oil and drained for a while. So yeah the faster you heat these engines the less wear and tear it will have!

The 170 sounds just like the 165. Amazingly so even though my 165 has a muffler from a 2 stroke on it.  The mechanical clatter is the loudest thing in an aircooled anyway.
I sure would like to find a 10-15Hp water cooled horizontal. Wouldn't knock any size or type back actually, I love these things!

Have to put it on a trolley and hook it up to an alternator or an induction motor and have some fun with the thing!

Theres a 15hp diesel engine for sale in Hamilton for $400! Changfa type horizontal water cooled with rebuild parts, only ran for few hours! I would buy it but i have no truck and it would cost alot to get it. If i can find a way to pick it up ill buy it! It weights 300 pounds ! I think is a s1100.

Today im making the alternator bracket and the tensioner. I  have like no metal shop tools to work with so im working with minimal tools lol. My alternator bracket will be made from a few peices of scrap and a bike wheel axle for the through bolt. The tensioner is simple, just a peice of metal cut from a speed square with a long hole slot to allow for adjustment. Also more engine parts arrive, my 2 fuel injecter nozzels and 2 fuel pump barrels. I also just purchased a few torque wrenches, so all whats left on list to completion is a 36 inch 5 rib serpentine belt !

  Ill post pics soon!  ;D

if you can buy a low hour s1100 for 400 bucks you best better jump on it, not likely to ever find another at that price.

as for 300 lbs?  i think you are a little light?  if memory serves me it is a bit heavier than that.

bob g

Yeah bob I contacted the guy but didn't hear back from him yet! I will at least try to get the engine so I don't feel bad lol!!!!  ;D


Here's a few more pic of the homemade alternator bracket made form garage door latches and an adjustment bracket made from a speed square!  ;D


Its not  complete yet !!!!!

My alternator tensioner of Choice is a turnbuckle.

You can tighten the belts in the fly and they have plenty of ajustment.  Sometimes they may spin with vibration so I either put a bit of wire  through them or Paint the threads.
I have picked up a couple of spring loaded belt tentioners off cars to use.  I think these are the best option of all as they keep the same or relatively the same tension on the belt the whole time and don't need any adjustment.

Jesse, I'm not sure without reading all of the postings but I have found it is to your advantage to find your belt first then fit the add-ons to it. Some belt sizes they make millions and a spare belt may be on the neighbors car if you need a replacement. If you pick an odd length the price will scare you and its availability is hard to acquire. I tried to get as much wrap on the pulley to help reduce belt tension and load on the bearings. I used a tensioner off a truck with the same belt width. I was going to post a picture of mine but have learned photo bucket has become a big pain to deal with!  Thanks HenryW for the how to!

Im looking at the types of serpentine belt i need! Its all coming down to around 36" of belt lenght, I'm going to fully complete the alternator bracket right now and then decide my lenght by using string, and I also recieved  my torque wrenches in the mail! They are old school beam type which is what they used in the old days, perfect for an old school engine!  ;D

Quote from: XYZER on October 04, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Jesse, I'm not sure without reading all of the postings but I have found it is to your advantage to find your belt first then fit the add-ons to it. Some belt sizes they make millions and a spare belt may be on the neighbors car if you need a replacement. If you pick an odd length the price will scare you and its availability is hard to acquire. I tried to get as much wrap on the pulley to help reduce belt tension and load on the bearings. I used a tensioner off a truck with the same belt width. I was going to post a picture of mine but have learned photo bucket has become a big pain to deal with!  Thanks HenryW for the how to!

XYZER

Long time no see how have you been?   I remember when you built that generator.

Got to stop reading this.  I have a ton of things on my plate atm but the more I read this thread the more I want to go out and get the new engine and have a play.

I'd really like to use Micro Grove belts but getting the pulleys here is expensive and they are hard to find. I'm thinking the easiest thing might be to get brother in law to chuck up the original pulley in his lathe, get the harmonic balancer I have from a car, center them up and weld them to each other.
That way I would have a V and a microgroove pulley without costing a fortune.

I used a Microgrove belt off a car on my Lister to drive 2 alts. The car the belt came from is about the most popular one here and even though there are a few variations, they are not much and the way I have the twin alts set up, I could ajust everything to take anyone of them. Have a few spares already though.
I'd like to put 2 alts on the new engine as just having one would be overkill for the engine.  Also really like the pic above with the AC and DC alt.  I might look at hooking the engine up on a frame I have like that and use my 3 phase induction motor.  Miss playing with that. Why muck around with 12V when you can create 400+ and really live life dangerously!  :0)

Quote from: Carlb on October 05, 2017, 05:29:57 AM

XYZER

Long time no see how have you been?   I remember when you built that generator.

Carl, doing good! Thanks for asking.  The generator is still doing fine at my off grid place. I'm in the process of building a shop trying to get a roof on before the snow. Waiting on other people at the moment. I have been lurking and visit site daily. I hope all are doing well out there!
Dave

Well im gonna attempt to get the changfa type 1100 diesel engine, i just gotta find someone with a vehicle thats willing to do a 300 km round trip drive. The guy got back to me today saying its all mine if i make it over with the $400. Oh man i hope i can get it ill never find a deal like that again!  ::) i was looking to buy one a few years back for over a grand !  :o

300K round trip?
Pffft, you should be up early and back by lunchtime!  I normally do it the other way, Have dinner with my dad then leave about 8-8:30. He lives 312 Km from me  Roughly!  :0)
Seems a real bargain. Wish one would come up here like that.

I went out and played with my new toy today. Got it out, fired it up and let it run while I want thought the shed where I know where nothing at all is still being in the boxes everything was brought here in.  Going to have to make that a priority to clean and organize.

Jesse, being the parts and procurement master of all things diesel and horizontal,  do you know of anywhere that sells  Pulleys for these things or a Shaft setup?
The stock pulley is a bit on the small side for anything I want to do like run a car alt so I'd like to either get a bigger pulley, 5-6" would be ideal, or get one of the 3 stud fittings that has a 1" shaft. I'd get the i" turned down on the end to a 3/4 for good measure and to give me more pulley choices.

I got a bit of plate steel today that covers the stud size and I'm going to take it to the BIL tomorrow to see if he can make me something but I don't have any 1" bar. have to see if he does but either way, probably won't get anything back till Christmas........ 2019. The slow boat from China I'm sure would be faster.

Look forward to seeing a rundown of the new Big engine!
I'll just go check gumtree and fleabay to see if any have popped up here........  ::)

Yeah its not that  far of a trip ! Just i dont have a vehicle yet!  Im thinking even a car would work lol, just thinking how the hell can i lift the monster, it weighs over 336 pounds! Maybe disaasemble it a bit flywheel and hopper, take off 100 pounds and then maybe me and my brother can lift it in the trunk lol. I coukd leave it on its gear cover side so it dont rock around. Im thinking lol, i loaded about a thousand pounds of concrete in a friends hybrid toyota prius just a few days ago, 14    66 pound bags, so mayby he give me a hand lol!!!!! I gotta figure a way to grab that Valuble chunk of iron !!! ;D The prius did handle all the thousand pounds of concrete no problem hahaha!!!!!!



Glort,

Im gonna do a search online and look for pulleys and shaft adapters in china! I know we will never find a manufacturer in the Americas lol!

 So one thing i know that will work is to make one from scratch out of a serpentine crank pulley from a car engine. Thats my idea to make mine! Im looking for a crank pulley with a big enough center hole to fit through the flywheel nut with space for drilling holes for the studs. Its easy just make sure the studs or centred! Its the best way to get a serpentine pulley for these engines!

Wel I torque all the bolts and nuts! Now I just gotta do a pressure test on the cooling system to see how sealed I have it ! You can see I have a small air pump attached to the engine to pressurize the system. So far I left it all night and this morning it's still got pressure! So I'm doing it again while at work! So far it's holding up great!!   

Reason for this test is I read a lot of stories of folks completing their projects, fill the engine with fluids and find its gushing outta the head gasket.  Same thing happened to me !! After I torque the head bolts to spec, I filled with water and pressure test it and it all starting to come out at the head gasket  >:(

So I got frustrated, I gave the project a break for a few hours had a few beers with my brother, after a few hours I returned to the engine wondering if I gotta tighten the head bolts some more. So I did another pressure test to see were exactly waters coming from, this time is held pressure  ??? ??? So I assumed the gasket eventually sealed?! So I tightened the head bolts alittle more just to ensure !!  :)

Ok so I did another pressure test,  I see water seeping out on one side of the gasket, it's very very little like minor sweating basically. You wouldn't notice unless you had a light on it and watching it. It's so slight of a seepage and minute that it's looking like it's bleeding through the metrial. 
I assume these head gaskets are not designed for pressure since they are made for hopper cooling.

Bob if your reading this I remember you had a similar problem with the original head gasket for your s195 diesel.

I know for sure that if I had a good gasket made it would work flawless with high pressure. I read some threads here and saw some pics of quality gaskets made from gasketstogo, I think I'll have 5 made for my engine, I'll send them one of my China gaskets as a templet. i should get in contact and see what they can do for me!  ;D

IIRC I paid $500 us for my Xing Dong S1100 About 10 years ago.   For what it's worth, your proposed engine looks exactly like mine.  Good luck and wishes!
Ron in TN.

Well I'm very happy I finally completed my changfa R165 engine!!!! I will post pics tomorrow ! I'm all ready for its first test run soon hopefully tommorow! I have to get oil for it first! I will post a video on YouTube and post a link here. I'm gonna make a good video of it running. I have a 400 watt inverter I can connect to the alternator so it will be about 850 watts of energy for the engine to turn after energy deficiency losses. I would like to see if 400 watts is enough to keep the engine to be proper running temp! It's so small the cooling system holds exactly 1 litre! The serpentine belt arrive today in the mail and it fits perfect ! I have a analog temp gauge to see engine water temp and a laser rpm speed gauge to do some testing on the little 3hp diesel. I will have to buy a power meter as well !!

the original head gasket for my s-195 is a steel core fiber gasket... gray sort of like the old asbestos gskts typical of headgaskets back before printoseal black, blue etc we see today.

the gasket held up just fine up until i forgot in testing to turn the pump on and ran the temperature up to about 260F after which the thing leaked horribly, of course upon teardown i found it blown.

oddly enough the engine was still running fine before shutdown without smoking or loss of power?

anyway i had a spare gasket and thought i would see if the guy at "gaskets to go" could come up with something better.

i contacted him and an associate of his over in malaysia or somewhere i don't recall, told him "i think i can provide that gasket without you having to special build one for your customer"

he provided me with 6 for a good price, they turned out to be s-1100 gaskets... the s-1100 is a direct injected engine, and the s-195 is an indirect injected engine.  the difference is the larger bore of the s1100 iirc has no step on the liner, and the s-195 does... so the direct injected s-1100 gasket will drop right in a direct injected s195.

the s1100 gaskets is of modern design, dark almost black, print-o-seal type that is much stronger and will put up with much more abuse than the oem s-195 gskt.

now having said that, i suspect the original gasket is likely good enough, and no one should be running their engine's up against the wall like i was in testing (near 15hp output at 1800rpm, on an engine rated at 12hp at 2000rpm).

one other point worth mention, when it comes to weeping head gaskets on the changfa types...

i have seen over the years just about every radiator repair guy dump powdered sealant into a recored radiator to stop up minor weeps in his work, as i have found those little brown nuggets stuffed into water jackets of many rebuilt gas engines, either in the blocks or the cylinder heads.   i asked about that and was told that it was used to seal up minor weeps in head gasket and intake manifold leaks once put into service.

me? i am not afraid of a bit of block seal and would certainly use it to seal off a minor seepage from a head gasket on any of these engines.   i just wouldn't suggest using a lot of it and not at all if i had anything other than a minor cosmetic weep.

of course one should use some sort of gasket sealant when using one of the old style gaskets like the old metal core asbestos types,  the newer style fiber "print-o-seal" types are much better at sealing off the water jacket ports in the head to block interface.

lastly torquing the heads...

be sure to seal the head studs, lube the threads and the nuts, washers if used and where the nut meets the head with motor oil (don't use antisieze)...

if for example your heads torque to 100ft lbs (likely more but this is an example) torque up in at least 3 steps.
start with 25lbs criss cross pattern, then ease off and retorque to 25lbs... then torque up to around 75lbs, then the final torque up to 100ft lbs... (its not important the exact values of the first steps, just the final of course)....

after you have ran the engine up to temperature and then shut down, let it cool down completely and then retorque the head...   the older style gaskets have more give and you will likely find the nuts down on torque 15 or more lbs.  the new style carbon fiber (printoseal) seam to hold final torque better, but i would still retorque.

one other thought...

if you look at the head you will see a rather rough crosshatch of where the flycutter surfaced the head... the chinese surface is a bit too rough, and this leads to some seeps... however don't try and sand this down smoother as this "tooth" is necessary to keep the head from working around on the gasket and wearing it out.

this surface finish has a spec that most manufactures have found from experience to be a compromise between being rough enough to keep things locked together and smooth enough to seal up with the type of gasket used.

over the years i have seen many many mechanics with their die grinders smoothing down block decks and head surfaces thinking that the rough surface was going to never be kept from seeping... only to get a better seal but early failures of the head gasket.

best to err on the side of being a bit too rough, use a good gasket and sealant, torque properly and then add just a bit of block seal/stop leak if there is a bit of seepage that shows up.

at least that is my opinion on the topic

bob g

Wow. Wealth of been-there, done-that, experienced based wisdom there MobileBob.
Too bad this forum does not have like-heart buttons.

On the leaked at first. Then after running and sitting, it no longer leaks; this is true of most old style fiber bases gaskets and seals. Even asbestos based with solid rod fibers. Think about it. No matter how compressed there will be spaces between the fibers. Dry they will weep trough these spaces. Once wetted with coolant, oil, heavy lubes these spaces fill and your weeping decreased to near nothing.
I have seen this time and time again on water well pumping systems using fiber gaskets, rope packing seals. You see this on carburetor float bowls that use/used fiber sealing rings.
IF always left wet, they do not leak.
Allowed to dry out, they will then leak until wetted "filled" up again.
Ha! being a 20th century modern, I too strongly preferred on use-once applications to pre-fill these inter-fiber spaces ahead of time with an appropriate sealant. Use-heat parts expansion movements; and then going cold contractions, even with sealant pre-filling you will have to re-torque tighten due to squeezed out "shrinkage".
21st century modern solid membrane gaskets are much, much better. How they got to no re-torquing needed. Folks would not bring back for post-manufacturing, major-repair inspections, re-torques and re-tightens.
As much as I and others have complained about the constant-pressure hoses spring clamps THAT was what that was about. The wonderful gear clamps did not change stretch - the underlying hoses did compress, and deform needing those clamps to be re-tightened later.
On my own processional repair jobs I learned to re-use, re-set constant-pressure hose clamps back into their original hose end indents and then stopped having clean concrete garages "since-you worked-on-it" dripping, come-backs.
live and learn by DOing
tree-farmer Steve unruh

Thats nice to know that my gasket seepage is normal  ;D  thanks guys for the wise info! I had a feeling its normal for these poison head gaskets  ;D

So i pulled the gasket and used another one, I oiled the studs and nuts just like how you mentioned bob, and the head nuts torque is only 60 ft lbs on this little diesel, i torqued the nuts in steps aswell so i did it all right!  I did another pressure test and it took half hour or so till i noticed a few minor weeps, so minor just the gasket changed a darker colour thats it. Yeah something tells me its all good and will run perfect! 

Saw a watercooled 165 at the engine show today.
Had an external oil filter and obviously pressure lube. Hideous paint job but I thought of all the work you have put into yours jesse and figured least I could do would be strip what I had to, sandblast and repaint something appropriate.

Found owner but he wouldn't sell.  Seemed a bit annoyed at the question actually so the conversation was short. I think he may have been a bit pissed off I was more interested in the engine than the historic vehicle he was towing the trailer with the engine was sitting on.

He had made an interesting mod to the pullet though in that he had somehow bolted a metal disk to the outside of the oem pulley then seemed to weld a shaft onto that and put another removable pulley onto it.
Brother in law is coming for lunch tomorrow so I'll hit him up and see what he can/ will do for me.
I'd be happy with a plate that bolted tot he flywheel with a 1" shaft and an end turned to 3/4" so I could mount whatever pulley I wanted.

My Kubota EL300AR has them bolt on shafts that attaches like the changfas pulleys. It would be nice to have one for my r165 engine as the original pulley sucks lol. It's like something made from Fred flintstones the centre bore is outta whack like willy wonka ;D

I've been busy working last few days installing chain link fencing, now I got that all finished I have a day job tommorow installing vynal flooring then I'll have a week off from work! I'm doing private contracting with my brother and cousin, it's nice becuase having no boss we work hard for a week then take a week off. So now I'm gonna have sometime to get my
Engine started and do some testing, I have to get some motor oil and do some of the wiring and she'll be ready for her first test run! Hopefully tommorow but depends if I'm finished work early  ::)

Pics

I gotta do some wireing and shes set to run!!!

Pics

Heres the engine all ready to run! I gotta get some crank case oil then shes set!!  ;D im very excited!!

I had the engine running for 1.5 hours and it ran great! I took off my homemade  air cleaner before i made the video because i noticed it restricted airflow, i didnt run it for long after since it can damage the engine without it. I find that it had a lot of torque on the low end speed. I have some videos I'll post on YouTube tonite hopefully and I'll Post a few links to them.  So the engine works great no oil leaks ! The engine is still just as clean before I started it! No oil leaks makes me very happy! My heat gauge sensor works half the time I'll have to replace it with a better quality one, and the fans switch sensor don't work either lol, I got these sensors on eBay from China at a cheap price  ::) but I find I don't need a fan sensor as the thermostats keeps the engine at proper temp while idling anyways! So Less parts to fail! The engine actually is well balanced it's stays in one spot ! My other R170 clone hopped around  ;D

So I'm wondering, anyone know how much power the field coil in a 110 amp alternator draws? I find the load of just the field Coil keeps the little diesel happily at hot temps while at lower Rpms. The engine heats up to over
90 C while idling in about 90 seconds after cold startup. The thermostat works great it helps the engine warmup process a lot! I used a 400 watt hair dryer which is 800 watts on the engine after inverter and alternator deficiency losses, it ran really well! I even had it idling at very low rpm and it power 800 watts at 14 volts! It was chugging like a shot gun and blowing soot, I know it's not good to do that a lot, but was fun to watch!!!! ::)  ;D I'll post vids of it idling with a heavy engine load of 800 watts haha, it's amazing how much power these small diesels got!!

Heres a link of the engine running

https://youtu.be/6CNqmq3o-MM

And heres a link with me messing around with lower rpm and high loads  ;D

https://youtu.be/jH5MYJxc418


So i checked on the engine and im impressed how smooth it turns over, the new skf 6307 crank bearings i installed were well worth it! I still remember the feeling turning this engine over before i did the major upgrading overhaul, it didnt feel so smooth. So one thing i hear people mention about these engines is they do like being run at all speeds as long as you give them a good ripp every here and there  ;D

in my ever so humble opinion

this idea or philosophy of "KISS" at all cost is over rated!

"less parts to fail" has its merits, but there is really no substitute for the use of good technology to get to a better end result in my thinking, or rather experience.

KISS has its place, but there is a tradeoff that must be made, or rather a compromise.

of course there is nothing more KISS than a tank cooled convection system, but in testing you will find the efficiency will be lower in most all cases.

what i am getting at, is this

yes the tstat will moderate temperatures in the engine, or rather control them, however the limit will be about 195F (or whatever stat you use) and the efficiency will be higher running at higher coolant temps,(provided of course you can control things)

with a fan controlled system, the tstat really only works when the engine is cold and opens at 195F (or whatever) and then once open the engine temp rises, where the fan moderates the temperature via the fan temp switch... this generally allows the engine to run up to around 205-215F or so and in most cases in tighter control which equates to less thermal expansion changes (lower stresses) and less heat rejection from the combustion chamber to the coolant, which ends up relating to higher efficiency (and it is not only measureable but significant).

when you think about reliability of the technologies  involved, the tech is mature as it is older than a lot of folks working with the engines. and really how many car engine's (trucks and others) have overheat failures? save for poorly maintained and never checked under the hood applications, operated by folks that have no idea where to put the oil or water in anyway.

so?

don't shy away from using sensors and temp switches to control things, nothing wrong with cheap china stuff to prototype with, just replace with quality stuff once you get the kinks/bugs worked out.... i think the end result will be much less of a headache and much more reliable.

the little engine has a very limited coolant capacity to start with, so unless you plan on babysitting it while it is running, i would think adding some controls/electrics/electronics would be beneficial... seems like 50 bucks or so is a cheap babysitter that if done right is going to be a better job and react far faster than most of us.

if that makes sense.

don't get me wrong, i like what you have done, and i really like that little engine

just wish i had a couple of them with the electric start option.

fwiw
bob g

Thanks bob for your awsome advice!!  Im consider looking for senors from junked cars or maybe buy from ebay. I will have to do more testing on the engine with a bigger load, i wounder if i have to small of a cooling fan, the temps stay around 97 C so its seems good temp, but i havent went passed 800 watts total engine load. Im gonna write all my tests here so this thread is not over yet!!  ;D

Quote from: Jesse McB on October 18, 2017, 05:12:13 PM
I had the engine running for 1.5 hours and it ran great!

Jesse, I admit, I am laughing at you!

There seems to be surprise in your comments about how well your engine runs. After all the time and effort you have put into it, how could it run anything but perfect?   And you are surprised at no oil leaks? again, after all the time and care you put into it, why would there be any?  You have been pedantic with this thing and been so over the top with it I could not be less surprised it has turned out as beautiful as it has.

I opened the vid and in about a second said out loud to myself , "WOW!"  That thing runs SO smooth! I know what my own is like and it's a great little engine but that one is something else. Barely a vibration. Mine walks itself around the concrete. The thing looks as good as it runs and vice versa. It's a real credit to you mate. Only problem now is although you built it for work, it looks and runs too nice.  You have turned the thing from a work horse to what A mate and I call something just for " Sippin". IE, like a really good scotch you just sip straight rather than drink, this thing I'd just pull up a chair and sip a drink while watching, listening and admiring it while it ran.    ;D

QuoteSo I'm wondering, anyone know how much power the field coil in a 110 amp alternator draws?

Depending on the alt usually around 3-4 amps.

QuoteThe engine heats up to over 90 C while idling in about 90 seconds after cold startup.

Got to say, I find that a bit alarming.  Don't have any experience with these engines in water cooled but in general diesels run pretty cool especially at idle.  Maybe the alt was charging the battery or there was more load than you thought.  For that mass ( water and engine Cylinder if not whole block) to go from ambient to 90 in a min and a half seems bloody fast to me.  Maybe the volume of the jacket is very small but with a low load, I very much doubt the exhaust of my engine would get that hot that fast.
If it's not overheating I guess there is no problem but when you do load it up for the first time and give it a good run, I would keep an eye on it. Not that you wouldn't anyway.

QuoteI even had it idling at very low rpm and it power 800 watts at 14 volts! It was chugging like a shot gun and blowing soot, I know it's not good to do that a lot, but was fun to watch!!!! ::)  ;D I'll post vids of it idling with a heavy engine load of 800 watts haha, it's amazing how much power these small diesels got!!

I also laughed at you bogging the engine down. That's exactly what I do and my engine does the same thing. They are tough little buggers and I know they will take " amusement" like that all day long and not flinch.
I think maybe the smaller ones are extra over built. If you look at the size of the components in them and compare to larger engines, they must have a pretty low loading stress rate in comparison.
Like I have said before, My little 165 rated at 3.5 Hp will out pull every other 5 and 6 Hp engine I have got and I have a few now.  Be interesting to see how the new 170 goes.  Haven't loaded that yet as I'm waiting on BIL to make me a pulley and shaft for the thing. If it's anything like the little one, I should be able to get 9 hp out of that when put to the wall.

You have done a great job with the engine mate. Thanks for sharing the build and the vids of it running.

As  Viewer request.....
I'd like to see the thing with an amp meter fully loaded and see what it will pull.  You can get meters off flea bay ( or your other numerous suppliers) that have shunts on them. Should be able to get them to 100A with no problems.  For a load, you can get some rods and weld flat metal plates to them, one set for each pole. Multiple plates on each pole is good. Put them in a bucket of water ( don't let them touch!)  and add Caustic. Salt may do too. The more you add the more conductive the water becomes.  This is how the Dreamers make HoHoHo gas that supposedly give you 100 MPG out of a fully loaded mack truck going up a mountain side, but on a useful application, it makes for a great High power dump load for testing.  Also acts like a Kettle so it will boil after a while which is why it's good to use plenty of water if  you want to test for longer times.

Of course you can also use inverters and heating elements if you have them.

I look forward to the second half of " Jesse's Little engine that Could" story!

Did you manage to get the bigger engine you were talking about?

Quote from: mobile_bob on October 19, 2017, 08:08:38 PM

this idea or philosophy of "KISS" at all cost is over rated!

"less parts to fail" has its merits, but there is really no substitute for the use of good technology to get to a better end result in my thinking, or rather experience.

KISS has its place, but there is a tradeoff that must be made, or rather a compromise.

I Could NOT agree with you more Bob!

People seem obsessed with this Simple and bulletproof idea but I think it is pretty much completely flawed.
You can't make anything bullet proof, there is always something that will fail. A belt, a filter that will block or mechanical failure.  thinking that keeping a setup in the stone age will make it infallible is kidding one's self.

As you mention, there seems to be a think with sensors and fans for cooling. Look at the auto industry. millions of cars use sensors and electric fans and have for 30 years and how many fail? If a sensor goes, usually it fails into the always on mode so the vehicle still has no real cooling problem. Yes, there will always be failures that cause damage but are you going to base your setup on the one in a million chance or the infinitely greater likelihood it will be fine and give you a much better and efficient setup over all.  Radiator hoses fail too but e don't stop using them because they can and do cause an engine to cook.
Everything can fail but the wise man keeps some spares around and knows how to replace them in addition to doing preventative maintenance like changing things at intervals before they fail such as belts and hoses.

Modern electronics are so widespread and reliable now I do not understand why people have this aversion to them in the DIY and particularly DIY power interest groups.
People get all pissy about them which makes me laugh. get your head out of the stone ages and catch up to reality.

You mean to tell me people have no problem getting on a plane that does 600 MPH 5 miles up in the sky that is controlled and guided by electronics/ computers and wires yet they don't trust  little controller to run a fan to keep their old lump of an engine temps in check?  Seriously?  Do these same people realise that even if their own cars throttle, steering and sometimes brakes are only connected by wires and computers that the cars coming towards them on the other side of the road might be?.... But they still think an electric fan controlled by a simple sensor is too unreliable and likely to fail for them to put on their old chugging lump? C'mon!
If you are driving anything built in the last 20 years, how you think that is keeping cool in traffic and what do you think is switching it on and off?  A sensor signaling a computer is what!
Then again, every time I go to the wrecking yard people still come in wanting manual cars because they think autos are unreliable and use more fuel.  Yeah, Might be time to drag your arse along 30 years to the present and realise things have changed a bit.

Do people realise how many computers we sell a year for cars? 1-2 and of those, 1 won't be the problem and the git that bought it after we told them it wasn't the problem will try to bring it back and the other one will be replacing one that sat under water for at least days. one dunking isn't enough to kill them.
The only time we sell a fan is when one is collision damaged.

The bit that really makes me laugh is the times I see people busting a gut to keep things simple and reliable and then building in more failure points to their setup than the " Complicated" or " unreliable" option they reject would ever have. 

The best way now is to use the reliable and proven technology to make things as simple as possible and do a better and more efficient job often at lower overall cost.

Thanks everyone for all the compliments and advice!! bob.. , I had a feeling me mentioning about the sensors, less parts to fail,  ;D actually I want to go to the fullest with the new technology's on this engine! Just I really meant is I can't rely on the China fan sensor kit that I purchased, I would rather use sensors from an old car actually! I check eBay and they are expensive, I may check my local car parts store instead! I never used the China sensors yet they are brand new and they don't even work?!!  So first thing I have in my mind is do I have a powerful enough cooling fan? I find that it stays hot while running lower loads, is that the thermostat closing to keep it regulated? I can't say for sure till I buy a big inverter over 1000 watts to try a big load. I feel I may have to buy a second cooling fan and cram it in!

Ok see heres how it went when I first started the engine the other day, I was very excited and left out a few important things to mention on my last posts, today I actually got a good memory on how it went. So when I first started, I had it idling, the temps went up to 95C in about 90 seconds.  Remember the water jacket only holds about a pop cans worth of fluids in these smaller diesels  ;D  I remember now I shut the engine down when I noticed the heat gauge went up so quickly, and I found my pump wires not connected  ::) So I connected the wires and restarted and did some running after that for over an hour. That explains that fast heat up, maybe it's just unavoidable with a thermostat in the stop plate? It's what I intended it for so it heats up quick!! It's better for the engine so it's has less wear and tear!  Next time I'm gonna start it up I'm gonna see how long it warms up, also I may have had the alternator field coil on the first startup so I will do another complete test soon!

I'm gonna find a powerful inverter to buy in my neiboorhood big box store ASAP and do some experimenting!

Also weird thing to mention !! Someone I know wants me to try melted bacon fat as fuel, lol I don't thing it would work so well? gum up, and water in it i would imagine.

I bought a 800 watt inverter today and did more testing.

It took aprox 6 minutes for the engine to hit 85c while idling so thats actually how long it takes to warm up. ;D i really must of been so excited that i forgot how long it took to warmup  ::) i ran it with a 400 watt hair dryer for about 30 min and it ran good! Then increased the rpm abit more and noticed the heat slowly climed pass 100C, so i will buy another cooling fan. Im using the engines coolant system to its max. The engine load was probly  at around 850 watts after alternator and belt deficiency losses to run the 400 watt hairdryer. When i add another fan im sure i will need a fan switch setup to keep it from being to cool when i run a lighter load.

I have multiple fun ideas for this engine, that i might make a small go kart with a heated cab for winter use.  Can use it to tour my wooded property up in Nova Scoita lol. Id love to see how it handle hill climbing, to hear it putt along and billows of soot! Its not good but its cool!!  

About the larger diesel engine,  I did not manage to find a way to get the engine yet, but good news is i bought a van for myself and it will be ready at the dealership on monday so i will use it to grab it if its available by then !! ;D

Quote from: Jesse McB on October 21, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
Also weird thing to mention !! Someone I know wants me to try melted bacon fat as fuel, lol I don't thing it would work so well? gum up, and water in it i would imagine.

You would never notice the difference with the Fat except it smells good.

I have run about everything I can think of in my diesels.  Veg oil engine oil, Turps, Kero, Jet fuel ( with added veg)  tranny fluid, gear oil, coconut oil, Candle wax and... Lard, Duck fat and Bacon Grease.
Fat is actually a REALLY good fuel. I don't recommend it in winter as you don't want it congealing but I used it as a summer fuel and really liked it.  I heated a couple of 25L drums of the stuff up, put it in my old Mercedes ( in the boot in the drums as I took the fuel tank out and never replaced it) and took it down the coast with the kids and a mate for a day at the beach.  It stayed hot enough to remain liquid ( comes back from the IP hotter than it went in) and I remember that as a really good day that stands out in my memories.

If you had the bacon fat good and hot for a while on the stove the water would boil off. Once it stops bubbling with nothing in it, it's dry. try to keep it under smoking much, that deteriorates any oil or fat.  Let it cool a bit before you feed the engine as it might be hot enough to melt or soften any non metal fuel line enough to come loose and I'd have the engine warmed up so it does not get to the IP and go thick.  It melts at about 40C so well within the engines temp range.
I think you'd find running grease an anticlimax.  People expect engines to suddenly behave different on oils or fats but sometimes you can't even smell the difference. The duck fat I got a load of thanks to a chinese restaurant owner had a real aroma to it raw but when burned in the engine had very little smell at all and when a mate and I converted it to biodiesel, it smelt like veg.
The coconut oil had an incredible mouthwatering aroma and we were looking forward to filling the air with a fragrant perfume burning that but again, nothing but disappointment that time. The bacon fat I remember as having a very slight aroma. Didn't burn much, takes a LOT of bacon to get even a liter of the stuff.

As for Gumming up, You'd have to be rolling coal a really long time for that to happen and it would not be gum as in sticky varnish type stuff but carbon you'd get with anything else including diesel. Fats in fact burn really clean and well. Better than veg I'd say. The problem is in the preheat. In the beginning of the Veg fuel thing people were actually using fat. The engine had to be warmed up on diesel and the fuel tank for the fats had to have a heating coil and the fuel line was often a tube in tube arrangement with coolant surrounding the fuel line to stop the fats congealing.  They went to veg being liquid but many of the old and needless practices like the idea the fuel needs to be heated as much as possible which is complete crap, still carry's on.

I have put at least 10 times more veg through my engines than diesel and to be honest, I feel uneasy when I run diesel in them and really nervous when I don't have any veg to add. Diesel these days is really dry stuff and not at all good at lubing pumps.  If I have no veg I add some 2 stroke. 100:1 increases the lube factor off the scale.

Don't be scared to give the bacon or any fat or oil a try. It all works fine and you won't tell much difference.

As for the heat up, I'm still a bit intreauged/ misunderstanding that. I relate everything to my veg burning activities and have a real clear idea of thermodynamics and heat input.

If the jacket holds as you say a soft drink cans worth, you still have to heat up a considerable amount of metal as well, at least a couple of KG. If I wanted to heat that sort of thermal mass to 90oC, I'm going to have to apply a LOT more energy than I know is in the amount of fuel an idling engine or even one under a few hundred watts of load contains. I know how much small diesels use, because I have fed them so many times from clear fuel lines and watch it go down.  given there is about 10KW of power in a litre of fuel and the engines are doing barely 3 KW, you can see how much fuel they are going to use in 90 sec.

Add to this you are only getting 1/3rd the heat of the fuel burned into the coolant, the other 3rd is going to the exhaust and another 3rd to the mechanical power and losses. It would seem in my guestimation that at full load this engine would be lucky to use 100Ml of fuel a minute so if you are talking 45 Ml to heat in 90 sec, I can't see enough energy to get the water alone to 90 let alone the thermal mass of the cylinder itself which would also have to come to that temp. I understand the coolant wasn't circulating but that does not make any difference to what i'm thinking.  There was probably some thermosyphoning and heat transfer going on to a greater amount of coolant anyway.

Not trying to call you out or something but just trying to make sense of it.  Makes me think that perhaps your gauge was pretty off because just for the jacket to get that hot that quick plays on the ADD or whatever I have with this stuff! I can't see how it could happen other than a bad gauge reading or the sensor picking up a very localised heating in the jacket from the exhaust or something.

I'd keep this engine for generating or something stationary. It's a looker as well as a workhorse. Put the other engine in a buggy.  being bigger it would probably be a better proposition.

I have been thinking about putting one of my collection into a lawn tractor. There are no manufactured ones here that have horozontal shafts and I'd want one that was super low geared and 4 WD for pulling out bushes and towing offcuts from trees around. Was thinking of a couple of Diffs from subarus which would give me suspension as well but no idea of what to use for a gearbox. Might ba able to use a suby one and have the front diff built in and gear the engine down to it. If I used a dual range box in low range it might be OK and the weight may be a help as well. For the foreseeable future I don't have the time or space for such a project so i'll keep an eye out for a little Kubota with a  bucket and backhoe.

I'll have more info soon on the little changfa diesel! Currently busy with some work but I did manage to run the engine alittle more! I will need a more powerful Cooling fan, the temps stay good till I load it with about 400 watts, so that's about 900 watts total or maybe a little more after deficiencys. The current cooling fan is more like a overpowered computer fan. I seen good ones on eBay that's perfect so I'll buy one of them!  after a few hours running it don't blow oil out of the crank breather and no slobbering so the engine must be breaking in good! I took the gear cover off to replace the fuel pump plunger and barrel with new ones, and I noticed no metal Peices all clean  :) The original fuel plunger got recked because it seized from sitting for 14 years till I got my hands on it. I think they use a different fuel for test running and it drys out and binds the pumps parts together and scrapes the pumps internal surfaces when forcing apart. The engine was hunting so I knew the injection pump was to blamed. After replacing it with a new internals it ran great!  The original parts had a score in the barrel walls and the plunger had scuff marks from me twisting it loose  ;D It's a nice thing the parts are cheap for these engines! The fuel injector parts are cheap but good quality ! Only cost $5 with shipping included for fuel injection parts.

After some running of the diesel i check on the valves and torqued the head nuts abit more. I noticed the exhaust valve  had alot of clearance, way to much like 1/8" :o The problem is the valve tapet adjusting screws metal is to soft, the push rod  made a indent in it.  And the thing is This is not the orignal tappet screw that came with the engine, i damaged the original when assembling the engine bot long ago, and i have a few spares of these tappet screws but turns out they are hot hardened steel!!?  >:( the intake valve still has its orignal tappet screw and its it perfect shape, and made outta hardend steel. I can tell by using a filer that original tappet screw is very hard steel it dont want to file, but the replacements i have are soft and file away easily. Any way to harden them? Im abit dissapointed lol! Heres a pic of the replacement tappet screw with its push rod indent. And then a pic of the orginal tappet , both have same hours of useage about 3 hours.

i am not familiar with the type of screw/adjuster you have pictured

did you make them up after losing or damaging one?

not knowing the carbon content of the thing, you could try the following

use an acetylene torch (oxy/acet) and heat the end that needs to be hardened up to bright red heat
and immediately drop it in a small can of oil, anything will work, try some auto trans fluid.

then check to see if it hardened by using the file test... if it did not harden
reheat again and drop into room temp water... remember the thing has to be fully red hot, almost orange in low light conditions.  then recheck to see if it hardened... if it did... great... go on to the next step

if it hardened, it will likely be too hard.... you will need to temper it back a bit, or it might shatter in use
to do this polish up the end so that it is bright and shiny and then put it on a cookie sheet and place into a preheated oven. set to ~375F or so.... be sure to preheat the oven first

let the thing heat up in there for maybe 15 minutes or so... then take it out and take a look at the polished end... you want to see a dark straw color, almost a brown color would be about right.   if it is a light yellow...

it will still be a bit too hard, simply increase the oven to 400F and let it come up to heat, and bake the little fellow another 15 minutes or so... recheck the color... increase a bit at a time till you get to about dark yellow/brown color...

if there was sufficient carbon in the bolt you used, you might be able to get this to work, actually if there is sufficient carbon content it "will" work.

if you can't get it hard from the first or second quench, it is likely there is insufficient carbon content to harden properly, you are then faced with one of the following options.

1. get a replacement adjuster from the oem, or
2. make a replacement out of high carbon steel, such as a piece of spring steel rod, you can anneal it and machine as you need and reharden it, or...
3. you can case harden the adjuster you have now, that you will need to probably take to a local gunsmith to have done, as he will have the necessary stuff to do it and will have enough experience to do it right.

good luck

bob g

I will try the harding methods you suggested bob, and i will order in a few hardend fine thread m8 allen bolts that i could drill a spot out for the push rod to set in and cut a groove in the back for the screw driver bit. Yes i think I like the "making it myself" way to solve this problem.  ;D

I found just what i need! If you kook at the pic of what the orginal valve adjuster looks like, it looks just like an allen bolt but the head is bored out for the push rod. And the good news is the M8 allen bolt is  exact same size and dimensions as the tappet screw. The diagram of the allen bolt is same dimensions pretty much for then tappet screw except the tappet screw head is in a cone shape.

it is also possible to bore out the socket end and then install a hardened insert or cup to fit the pushrod end.

is the pushrod end spherical? or ball end?

if so you could use a piece of carbon steel rod, drill an indention, heat it bright red and drive a ball bearing into the
indention to basically forge the socket for the pushrod.

then machine it down to size, cut it off and insert it into the socket end of the bolt, and braze it in.

reheat and harden, then temper to suit.

or you might be fine leaving it hard as hell, as it will be fully supported within the socket head bolt and brazed in place.

there are flat tappets that have hardened faces that are brazed in place on the end of the tappet head. i see no reason why this wouldn't work, that is if you have the ability and/or a small lathe?

having said that, it would be far cheaper to just contact one of those chinese guys and get a replacement adjuster, but where is the fun in that?

:)
bob g

Now thats another good idea! I will try that aswell i got ball bearings that should be of size and can locate some carbon steel, im gonna try a few methodes, only thing about getting parts from china is you can think its carbon steel but it may not!?
So im going to make the parts my self, be alot better id say!
I dont have a lathe but i wish i had one! it would be so much fun to have, ill be making many parts and stuff with it lol. im going to try to find a small one thats can work with metal, be nice to have around wit what tools i have lol! Most of my tools are for wood, not many are for metal work, i dont even have a welder!  ;D

I bought a bunch of electronic  guages and safty shutoff equipment for the little diesel! All on ebay! I already designed a electronic diagram for the comtrol box. Its made in a way if the engine overheats it will shutdown the fuel supply with a fuel shutoff solenoid i purchased aswell!  If the power cuts off for any reason the engine will shut down with the fuel solenoid. I bought 2 temp meters that will shut down the engine incase it overheats, if one frys or disconnects the other temp meter will keep going. Also i got an hour metre, rpm guage and volt amp gauge. Just right now im doing final painting touchups on the engine, and just waiting for over a dozen of them little china packages to come in after the holidays and i can complete this little money sucker!  ;D >:(

I cant wait till spring ill use it for a few things, im lookimg forward to making a little gokart with it! Ive used small 2.5 hp has engines but this will be like a 5hp gas engine buring off melted lard and baon fat!

Project is coming along nice Jesse !

A word of caution with your controls.
Make sure that your temp switches can handle the amperage of your Fuel Cut Out solenoid.
In your wiring diagram I did not see any relays.
Most automotive type temp switches can switch around 4 amps (or less).
Many fuel Solenoids use 20 amps to pull-in and 5 to 10 amps to hold-in.

cheers
Veggie

Thanks for the feedback veggie! I do have a breaker switch just for the temp switches so I will include that into my control panel!

I rotated the air intake port so its sticking straight up,  it adapts to the 32mm standard air filters that are easy to get.  I used 4 washers with 1" holes for full air flow. The intake is 1" as well so have to match them, it was a puzzle to do this but I figured it out after a little thinking. This was made with just a drill press. 4 large washers,  and 2 extra m6 hex bolts ;D

R165 Air Intake

i wouldn't be afraid of the chinese when it comes to carbon steel, they understand it and its uses very very well.

as an example, i bought a set of rough forged chisels and gouges, and they came about as rough as anything straight out of
a back yard forge ever was... san's handles

iirc it was ~75 piece set and took me another 3 hours each to finish, make handles and fit them, and then to temper and sharpen and hone...

i would put them against anything from any first world supplier, beit swedish or japanese, from england or the good ole usa... they can take an edge every bit as sharp as a razor and hold that edge wonderfully.

you only get that if you have carbon steel, and you only get the necessary toughness by having the right amount of carbon in the mix.

the materials they seem to understand, but in order to keep costs very low, they like everyone else cut corners on fit and finish... apparently labor costs are getting higher over there.

as for you adjuster, i would be shocked if they sent you anything other than a serviceable part.

bob g

I got a control panel made for the engine! Well its not finished yet but its on its way!!  Its gonna be on about 3 feet of bundled nerve lines so it can sit on the ground or wall and stay outta the vibration zone.  ;D

I had to make my own tappet screw! The ones they sent were way to soft! So i modified the high carbon 8mm Allen bolt and its perfect! The hole bore for the rounded end pushrod is perfect it feels fluid like when moving the pushrod on it.

The control panel i made is simple, still needs the lights switches wiring and relay switch.  Its got 2 digital programable thermostats, for shutting down the engines fuel if it overheats, I got 2 just incase if one fails.  :) A digital RPM guage that uses the magnet and proximity   sensor, a DC voltage and 100 amp amperage guage, and a hour meter to top it all off! Nothing wrong with having a way to see the engines brain waves lol.

Here is a pic of the sensor for the 2 digital thermostats. Made from a hollowed out fan switch, 2 thermostat sensors and some epoxy.

Im working on making a remote oil filter, first thing is i need to rig up an oil pump since this engines oil transfer system is centrifugel splash and mist. So on this magical site in china that sells all things for these engines, and all other things sells these small universal trochoid oil pumps for a good price! Only $32 canadian, shipping included! They have an 8mm shaft, ebay i can get a small 12v dc motor for $20 and a coupling and ill have a oil pump for a good price!  ill get a remote filter adapter and oil filter cheap on ebay, and he. This engine will have a way to have cleaner oil and longer oil usage!  :)

 Oh and to mention ill equip it with an oil sensor to shut it down if it ever leaked out! ;D 8)

Without doubt, this is going to be the most over engineered, over controlled, monitored, cared for, time invested, loved horizontal Diesel engine ever to come out of Chine in it's entire production history!!   ;D

I love it!

I love your control box too.  I was literally just looking on an electrical wholesalers website for a box for a project I'm doing and couldn't find anything suitable.
It's embarrassing that building one somehow didn't cross my mind.  That's a worry I think. I'll take a good hard look at myself and try not to do that again.  Odd really, I'm usualy making stuff I can buy cheaper without the mucking around but I guess we all have our brain fades.


Jess I have pumped a LOT of oil in my time 60K L ++ over 14 years and I have serious reservations about that motor on that pump.
I converted a bunch of Small Block Chev pumps to move Veg oil I was collecting.  The motors I used were the 24V scooter type motors.  These are relatively slow ( 2600 rpm) but high torque. I coupled the motor and pump with a similar Lovejoy coupler to the one you are using.

The pump you have being a gear pump is going to want slow and high torque, not high speed.  Oil is thick and heavy and just won't move at the pace I believe that motor wants to drive it.  It's also only 30 W and that alone will I believe make the thing strain and burn out in short order.
While you will pay more for one, I would highly recommend a scooter motor around 250W. Even the small ones at 100W would have vastly better torque than the little motor you show.
They will be 24V but work just fine on 12V. I did about 90% of my pumping with the motor on 12V because at half voltage the pump still gave about 75% flow rate as it did at 24V, the pump was far quieter, the motor could pump loads more oil without heating up too much And the way I modified the pumps, full flow/ speed meant hoses could blow themselves around like a garden hose gone wild. Not what you want when it's Veg oil coming out.

Other motors that may be good for this little pump are Car wiper motors which are geared down for low speed and high torque or electric radiator fan or  interior Demister blower motors.
Anything with a bit of size is going to be far better for this application that a little high speed motor.  I have some radiator fan motors I have used for many summers ventilating a window in my house and they run for about 3+ months a year 24/7. They were off 15yo cars when I got them and still going strong. Clearly longevity is not an issue with these things. The scooter Motors also seem to give good service. One on my oil pump must be 6-7 years old and it would have pumped at least 20K Litres of oil .  It's gets double duty. Has to pump into the tank when I am at the restaurant and then back out again when I get home into the IBC. I pick up  up to 400L at a time so it's an 800L exercise when combined


Found a vid of my oil pumps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o52BYTEau4

Another thing with what you want to do is the filtering.
The pump will be positive displacement which means when the flow is restricted, the torque required to drive it goes through the roof. Basically on my pumps the motor will stall if you restrict or block or the things will head north of 100lbs and a hose will blow ( or crush).  I have another pump I modified on a 3Hp Ac motor I use for moving oil around at home.  I can stall that motor really easy just by turning a valve that restricts/ shuts off  the oil flow.

You are going to be pumping through a filter so that will be a restriction that will be a greater load on the motor the more blocked it becomes.  I'd recommend putting a bypass valve on the setup or at least a re settable circuit breaker that will trip when the amps on the motor get too high.  Another suggestion would be to where possible over size all your connections and fittings. The smallest size you want anywhere is the exit  diameter of the pump itself.  You will probably use a car filter that will never need changing on this engine but a breaker that will reset even if the oil is too cold and the motor load too great would be prudent I think.

And one more thing......
Don't automatically assume the pump and motor have to be perfectly aligned.  I did that, many times, and couldn't figure why the pump was basically binding up as evidenced by the squealing.  Chev pumps are pretty rough in they just run in the casing rather than a bearing ( they are in an sump of oil I suppose) but what I found was happening was the pump when working was loading up on one side and causing drag.
I had to allow some play or offset on the alignment to get the thing to run right while pumping. Curiously, the pump run fine in forward and reverse once the offset was made.
I could tell when it was right by spinning the pump and turning it off. If the thing stopped as soon as the power was cut, it was binding.  If it ran on a bit and would  slow down ( aided by the inertia of the oil in the hoses) in a second or 2, then I knew it was " misaligned" Correctly.

Your pump ( could you put a link where you got it BTW? ) may be more precisely machined and not have this issue but before you spend too much time setting up the alignment and redoing it many times over wondering what the hell you were doing wrong as I did, just be aware of this possibility.  The fact it's not right may not be your workmanship is sloppy, rather it's too damn accurate and that's the real problem.

Anyway, I'd consider alternative motors because I don't think that one is right for the job for which you want it.

Glort, thats excatly why i posted the pictures and information of my oil pump, i had a feeling the motor may be to weak, and you just verifyed that for me! Thankyou! Im going for the 12v / 24v  100 watt scooter motor on ebay they have them for $30, only $10 more! They have a 8mm shaft so i can use the same coupler, i have not purchased the parts yet to build this oil pump. I will post pics of the details for this oil pump.

So yes it will be just used to filter the oil in the engine, so it can prolonged oil and engine life. the engine has just one litre of oil so i dont need the pump to work hard, just a flow rate of a liter or so a minute would be great!

Im thinking of having the drain port as the "oil out" and the refill port as the "oil in" port. This engine has a small size hole in the  bearing wall  to allow oil to transfer between the gear side and crank side. If the flow rate is to fast it will cause uneven oil levels in the engine, Im going to include an electronic oil pressure sensor in the high pressure end  to shut everything down if it losses pressure, ill attatch the when it comes to over pressure, ill just be careful, worst come to worse if it over pressures and pops a line or something it will shutdown from no oil pressure since it all got spit out.  but that will be unlikly as its just for filtering the oil, it wont be doing anything eles, im hoping it wont drag to much power, probably a few amps. I may use a dc dimmer switch to lower the speed incase it works to hard  ;D

The control panel was easy to build! All the parts are on ebay! They all cost about $12 per gauge. Maybe i should construct genny control panels and sell them?  ;D  

I agree that i over did it for this engine!!!! But i couldnt help it! It just looks to perfect to be kept in its old original looking state! These are like the most smallest watercooled  automotive style diesel engines in production. And they are VERY RARE in north america  ;D So I decided it can have some made in Canada and some quality control put into it.   installed new usa made SKF bearings for the crank and camshaft.  It had some faulty parts when i recieved it "new old stock" , the cylinder had a scratch from casting sand probly still usable, the valve guides were trash, and it was missing an internal bearing retaining bolt. I put so much time and money for the sake that it will last for a long time!  I know these engine run very well at around half load, they like running around 1800 to 2000 rpm.  I remember i seen a website based in europe somewere, selling these smaller changfas for over $1000 USD! But theres no life span information on these smaller Real changfa diesels anywere on the internet! one thing i notice is parts are very cheap at least!  I will only need about 400 watts of juice for charging batterys,  running my power in my cabin. Maybe build a quick simple gokart to feel its power haha  ;D i wont use the crap out of it as i do have my never used 4hp Kubota diesel engine  for power.  ;D  I dont need to worry about it getting dirty as its very easy to keep clean and no oil leaks. I cant beilive it took me a year to build this, and im still not finished !  I still need a muffler! But im not to worried, with the flex exhaust pipe i find its easy to attach to any muffler laying around.



I forgot to mention, the oil pump im getting is the Top-10A Model

Heres a photo of the RPM gauge senor, ill need to install one of them good flat magnets on the flywheel for the sensor.  ;D

5 electric start changfa type diesels for sale! I know someone thats selllng 5 changfa type watecooled diesels, i think they are the 15hp ones 1100, just after the s195. So buddy says they are bearly used, all 5 are electric start hopper cooled,  but been sitting in the barn for many years, selling all 5 for $1000!!! Thats  $200 each! ! I would like to buy 2 asap but he told me he will only sell al 5 at once! Hopefully i save up in time to buy them for next week or we all group together and buy the entire lot! Lol now that will be a long shot! They Are located by niagara falls area canada. Im gonna have the money for them for sure by next 2 weeks so if they available ill be scooping them up, imspect the 3 other omes clean em  and sell em for good deal! They are electric start so thats amazing deal!

Sounds like bargain of the century!
I'd give the guy whatever you have now to hold them for you for a couple of weeks.  I'd have sure bought the lot for that price!

I'm going to get ( hopefully) a lister SR2 Tomorrow. Dunno if it's a goer or yard decoration ATM but I hope it's more the former.  Have to get it off a wharf up a set of steep narrow steps and into a trailer. Hope it's worth it!

Those SR2's are heavy little suckers! Damn rowdy also. Good luck.

Im gonna have some fun with the small diesel again soon! Im gonna remake the alternator bracket, beef it up more, and add in a larger cooling fan. The control panel is ready to be assembled,  i been so busy with my work i havent touched the engine in months lol, even though i look at it everyday wih a quick peak woundering if anything could be modified better lol. Im gonna put a few new fastners like new bolts and nuts to shine it up some more. Im really looking to have that "new untapered  marine engine look" without the rigged-up parts look. So yeah the wooden frame may be tempary for awhile till i make something better.

I Need some advice for my diesel please! Im heading to Novascotia in a few days for a few weeks at my offgrid cabin, im taking the little diesel with, not using it for prime power, thats what the kubota is for just gonna have some fun with this engine! Ok so i need some opinions on a running problem for my little engine. I posted an updated vid on youtube, please watch!

So when I start it up it runs very nice, runs and sounds beautifully perfect unloaded while idling and at high-speed,. So initially to say the deepcycle battery is connected and the alternators field current is activated so there is slight load.

But When I apply a load " hairdryer" the engine after its warmed up it will run slighty rouph, slight coughs of black exhaust but not extreme though. When i unload the engine it will run perfect, and this is after an hour of runtime. Its not bad enouph that i don't want to run the engine,  It may not be noticeable in the video i posted., And i have no muffler just a straight flex pipe so the exhaust is kinda loud  :)   i hear it more in the exhaust note. , the rpms stay stable its not like a hunting issue.  I used a 400 watt hairdryer and with inverter and alternator efficiency losses its about a 900 watt load. With my kubota diesel, when i have it powering my ST 3 i remember when if the belt loosens it would run the same way, when id tighten the belt it would run smooth every beat. Im thinking maybe my little diesels flywheel is too slippery, causing the belt to slip and catch, making it run uneven when loaded? I do hear the belt makes a squeak noise with every power stroke when i have a load on. I did paint my flyweel with a high gloss black enamel  ::) hopefuly i just answered my own question!  ;D Because this engine is just to damn cool looking to run this way!

Before my next test run, im thinking I'll repaint the outer flywheel rim but add some fine sand dust or something to embed in the paint. I'm thinking if the belt don't slip, the engine should run very smooth. Has anyone had a similar problem?  If a belt is loose while driving a Gen head, the Diesel engine will hiccup every few revolutions. I can't find anything online about this issue. I work a lot, and live at a town house with neighbors everywhere so I'm limited on time when I can run it.

Hi Jesse,

The problem with the way the thing is running in the vid is you are simply running the engine too slow! that's making it Hunt.

Engine power for general term is a product of RPM x torque.  For example, an engine might do 10 Hp at it's rated RPM of 2600 RPM. At 1500RPM it might be doing 5 HP and at 1000 rpm might be doing 2 Hp.
The less revs the less power.
You are loading your little engine with a 1.5 Hp load when the thing is producing probably 1 HP.  The poor thing is just trying to overcome the overload. 800W at low RPM is a huge ask from that size engine and is the source of your problems.

There is a power Curve for an engine which is the power it makes at a given RPM and also a torque sweet spot. You have a pretty big pulley in the engine to start with which also increases the load.  Simply turn the revs up and it will be fine. It's not good to have the engine hunting like that for any period. If puts bad thrust loads on the piston, hammers the bearings and will cause the thing to soot up no matter what fuel you run.
You just need to get the thing up on it's power curve by increasing the RPM and it will be fine.

If you have got the thing reved up and it still is hunting, you need to reduce the pulley size on the engine.

Also be aware that car alts with the standard  control circitury in the voltage regulator are horribly inefficient.  If that is an 80A alt, It could be pulling 3.5 HP without much trouble. 800W is over 1 HP and that is electrical load, not mechanical. I'd say the actual load on the engine is more like double that given the mechanical losses alone.  Then there is the gearing.

It's not hunting too bad though so if you give the thing some revs and let it get into it's power/ torque curve, it should be fine.
Simple a soloution as you will ever find!  :0)

Thank you glort for the info, Anyone know were to have a stub shaft made? Id love to have a real pulley, i notice there is 3 outter bolt holes on the flyweel for a bigger pulley.  When i get to Nova scotia ill be spending time figuring everything about it! I can make all the noise i want aswell lol. I was thinking maybe it could be the size of the flywheel affecting it, putting to much torque on the engine?  I will belt it to my st3 head and put a good load on it with the original pulley. I still have not uploaded the new vid, i forgot too, ill do that as soom as possible!

I agree with glort. I've learned much where the RPM sweetspot is on engines. I try to run engines about 200 RPM's above peak torque curve. When an engine gets loaded the RPM's drop some and 200 RPM's is about right to keep an engine close to the peak torque curve.

as for a pulley, this is what i have done i the past

if you remove the oem pulley and look closely at the flywheel, where the bolt holes are
you will see the "register" steps, and he back of the oem pulley is machined so that the pulley
seats into this register.

you will need to carefully check the fit of the oem pulley to the register, some are quite loose/sloppy
and because they are a 3 bolt pattern it is not easy to determine the actual size.

my s195 was .070" sloppy, which allowed me to wrap one turn of .035 mig wire around the step i machined into
my new pulley and fit it to the register tightly.... i didn't check the slop/play before i had the pulley machined or i would have
caught the problem and had the pulley machined .070" bigger on the step.

i used a 9" cast iron pulley on the 195, iirc it is a 4 groove A-B section, and i run AA belts which set a bit deeper in the grooves.

i am using AA (hexagonal) belts as i can change them out without having to remove the st7.5 or the engine when they wear out.

i run a matched pair of AA belts to drive twin 110-555jho modified alternators, and a sanden compressor (a/c and refer) and of course not all things run at the same time.

fwiw, i really like close mounting the cast iron pulley right to the flywheel.  it is more compact and doesn't require an adapter/shaft to then fit a pulley onto.

bob g

Hello! So I moved back to Nova Scotia in the boonies at my Camp,  Currently using the Kubota diesel for prime power.  I'm giving real test runs of this small changfa is running well with tons of low end torque, it is burning oil as it's still 12 hrs breaking in. I'm using a DC 12V 1000 watt microwave for a load bank.   So I'm liking running it around 1800~2000 rpm then the rated 2600 rpm for noise reduction and fuel efficiency.  I installed a small muffler and works Great! But the knocking sound is still loud! So I'm thinking adjusting the injection timing may work abit? Or maybe even adjust the injector screw? I'm going to post new updated videos of the engine. The pressure cooling system works great! The alternator system puts out easy 1000 Watts with the engine running around 1800 rpm it's doing just what I want! Just I really think I could knock down the knocking sounds alittle bit  :)

Reviving my old thread!  ;D

I would try backing off the timing a bit first.
I have had a few of the China Vertical Cyl engines that sound like someone it banging on them with a hammer. I shimmed the pumps out and the difference was significant.

If you don't have any Shims, what I did was scan one that was on the engine, copy it 1:1 for a standard sheet size and then print them onto thick single Ply cardboard as a template and cut them out from there.  Add a few at a time till the harsh knocking goes away. There is every possibility the thing is timed too advanced anyway.  I don't know what the standard for fuel is in china but it's different to what it is here or they just use " The force" to time them in the first place.

Certainly a very impressive little engine you put together there.
Is my memory right in thinking you had bought a bigger engine and were going to do that up as well?

I would not touch the injector screw. It's best to leave it alone.
As glort suggested, shim the injector pump until the hard knocking almost goes away. If you go too much the engine will start hard.

One thing to keep in mind. Every engine has a critical speed at certain RPM's. You don't want to run the engine very long in that range. The safest thing is to run the engine in the recommended operating speed under the certain recommended load.

I remember that some small engine manufacturers  also recommended using a thicker head gasket at lower speeds.

That is the reason I always try to run engines within recommended operating speeds. I found on most engines I've worked on the sweet spot is 200 RPM's above posted peak torque curve and up.

Here is good info: 10hp air cooled single cylinder Chinese diesels don't like running much over 3000 RPM's. 3600 is too stressful for those engines.

At one time S195 engines came with a set of shims to retime the pump. Someplace in this forum I posted what shim thicknesses will change timing to what extent. It does not take much to retard or advance the timing one degree. I will have to look for it.

The best material to use to make shims is high grade steel or stainless shim stock of thicknesses:

Qty.    Thickness
3@.    .001
2@.    .002
1@     .005
2@.    .010
2@.    .020

This should be enough to get the timing right.

The best way to shim the pump is to use metal shims between thin paper shims. If all paper shims are used there is risk of the timing changing over time or worse yet is warping the injector pump base.

Henry

Found timing procedures.
Check the link below.
It also talks about critical speed in the topic.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=493.0

Henry

Thank you really much for the advice on the injection timing! Glort i missed out on the bigger diesel someone got it before I could! I'm still always looking for them lol. So I managed to shim it off 4 degrees advanced by using a 1/64" shim made from gasket sheet, and put it in between the originals shims . The engine runs very well on startup, and when loaded with the 1000 watt 12v microwave it don't make any much noise which surprised me abit!

But I have another problem as I thought advancing the injection Would fix, it's  smoking a abit  when loaded.  I haven't ran it in the day, only in the night so I don't know what colour it is. I allowed to to reach running temp.

So here's a summary of the smoking problem

1- smokes more when loaded
2- Diesel smelling  but I think I  smell oil
3- engine has 18.5 hrs, coolant is still clear green
4- definitely not white amoke
5- smokes even  at full speed


I have a few Theories what's going on

I may installed the piston rings backwards, I'm wounding if that's possible
With this engine as the rings seem bi directional.

valve guides have to much clearance

Exhaust pipe restriction, I have a smalll muffler and flex pipe system that I will dismantle and run without to test if it's the culprit.

Valves need adjustment

Injector needs cleaning, I did a lot of  low loading  which may carbonated the injector.




That's what's on my mind for what I may need to look for, but I know there's others things i may need to look for. I guess after ripping apart this engine and reassemble also takes just as much work tuning it to work perfect!

So another question, does everyone's Changfa and Changfa type diesels smoke when running? Is it normal for this rugged design of engines? I understand these are designed types from the old days.

My S195 direct injected made a little grey smoke when loaded good. I overloaded it many times and that was when it started making black smoke. It never made blue smoke. That could be oil getting past the rings.

I would start by checking valve clearances. If it has a breather check to make sure it's working properly. If those are fine the next thing would be to check injector time. For now, I would get it close to factory specs. So that means putting back the time for now to run at full operating speed. The timing could be too retarded and the engine could be coking up at low speeds. Next is run it near full operating speed with near a full load to get the engine hot enough to burn any oil or fuel out of the combustion chamber, exhaust port, exhaust manifold and muffler.
If it is a indirect injected engine that could be the problem. Direct injected engines have less of a problem with this issue.

The problem is it might need a good sh#/ beating to clean it out and seat the rings.

In lots of generator user manuals it states to operate diesels at 75% or more loaded. This gets the engine hot enough to keep it from coking up.

I attached a document from Caterpillar below this post. Please log in to read it

Found this:
First, let's define what wet stacking is. Wet stacking is a term that originally described a diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes or, as they're often called, "stacks." The condition is caused by operating the engine at light load for extended periods, sending unburned fuel and soot into the exhaust system. Today, the term refers to an engine that isn't completely burning all the fuel that's delivered to its cylinders. Over a prolonged period, this condition can seriously degrade engine performance.

When a diesel engine runs without load, it develops only enough power to drive its accessories and overcome internal friction. A diesel engine doesn't use spark plugs. It relies on the hot compressed air in the cylinder to vaporize and ignite the fuel. With the air cooler than the design temperature, conditions for combustion are less than ideal. The fuel ignites and burns, but it doesn't burn completely. What remains are vaporized fuel and soot—small, hard particles of unburned carbon. In the exhaust system, fuel vapors condense and mix with soot to form a dark, thick liquid that looks like engine oil. It may ooze from the turbocharger or drip from the exhaust outlets. The appearance of liquid on the exhaust stacks leads to the term "wet stacking."

How can I tell if my generator is Wet Stacking? Your generator is likely operating inefficiently if any, or all of the following conditions exist:

•           Continuous black exhaust smoke from your exhaust pipe

•           Diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes

•           Soot or hard carbon deposits forming

Negative Impacts of Wet Stacking

Expense - Excessive wet stacking will shorten engine life by many years and before planned replacement.

Pollution - Many urban areas restrict the level of smoke emissions wet stacking produces.

Power - Even before an engine is damaged, deposits will reduce maximum power. A prematurely worn engine will have a lower maximum power than it was designed to develop.

Maintenance - An engine experiencing wet stacking will require considerably more maintenance than an engine that is adequately loaded.

Solutions to Avoid Wet Stacking

The general cure for wet stacking is a few hours of operation at a load of about 75% to 100% of the generator's nameplate rating, raising the exhaust temperature high enough to vaporize the unburned fuel in the exhaust system and blow out the soot. Built-up fuel deposits and carbon can be removed by running the diesel engine at the required operational temperature for several hours if wet stacking has not yet reached the level where carbon buildup can only be removed by a major engine overhaul. But, the exhaust temperature at that load is well above the auto-ignition temperature for diesel fuel, and on rare occasions fuel and soot can ignite within the exhaust system. If a unit has a history of extended operation at low load, or if there's no documentation that it's been exercised recently at adequate load, it's important to have a professional generator maintenance expert manage the load testing procedure.

This is why I try to stay within the load and speed requirements of the manufacturers recommendations. They spend millions on R&D. They should know a little about operation and care.

This is what's so fun about diesel generators. You might need two or three different sizes so you can match your load requirements.

A question, did you mess with the injector pressure? It's best not to mess with it. If you did the injector pressure needs to be calibrated and than the injector pump time needs to be done again.

It's possible to install rings incorrectly. But at times we can second guess ourselves also.

Let us know how it goes.

Henry

First thing with the smoking is to see if you can even see it during the day.
I have run Diesels on Veg oil for many years and you always see smoke in the headlights behind you but can never see it during the day. Pretty much everyone I have spoken to has seen the same thing and these engines are Running years, are running hard and a factory built so nothing wrong with them.  Diesel and Oil is a fuel that burns with a lot of particles even completely combusted which is why I think it's able to be seen agains specific light but not in the day.

If you can't see this smoke at night, I wouldn't be worrying a bit.

Other thing is you say it's only been run 18 Hours.  As long as it's not dribbling out the exhaust, run the thing till 60 hours or so and then see what happens. If nothings changed, good to keep going. If it's got better because the rings have bedded in, better still.
These motors are Tught, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd expect the thing to use a bit of oil till it does have more hours but they will use oil anyway.

You were lugging the thing a bit at one stage so that might take a bit of clearing as well.  Try the old water spray trick down the inlet while it's running and see how it is after a litre or so.
If the rings are not good you may see some water in the oil if you pour it in at a rate just above where the engine starts to bog and do that for a bit. If no water you are fine, If you do get some, might simply be the rings need more bedding in.

Long as it's running right and not using stupid amounts of oil, I wouldn't worry about it.  I'd expect to see that smoke at night myself because every Diesel Vehicle I have had or heard about ( sans DPF ) does it.

It's been forever since I been online,  and hope it's ok to revive this thread, I'm using the changfa as a prime power source as a backup when the main kubota Gen is down, at 600 hrs in it's running great 24/7, I'm kinda curious about a few things. It was -3C this morning and had it offline to chill for a few hours to cold start test, it fired right up without any heat, kinda strange as no glow plugs to assist. I'm running a 645 watt load 24/7,  it sips about 9L daily @ 375ml hr, is that adequate? I seem pleased.  I'm using a non efficient mini alternator, 430 watt AC continuous with a 12V Inverter, efficiency loss at %50 I believe total 645Watts.

Jesse,

Great that the unit is in use and making power.
I suspect anything less than -5C and you would have trouble starting it.
Especially since it's an Indirect Injection engine.
24/7 operation is impressive. Keep an eye on your oil level.
Change it often. At 24/7 you reach a 100 hr change interval in only 4 days.

I am currently building a CHP system based on the same engine.
By adding a large external oil filter I was able to add almost 1 more litre to the oil capacity.
This took some assistance from a machinist friend who helped me tap into the pressurized oil system.
I will take some pictures an post them soon.

Any new videos of of the little red beast in 24/7 action ?

I'll be sure to post a new video today while it's still daylight. I will explain my system. It's still in the trail stages as I have many flaws to fix, I'm really picky on this setup. I now keep the radiator isolated away from the engine I don't trust the vibrations. She still running non stop since my last post about 75 hours ago without any hickups. I'm watching the oil consumption it's really not burning much at all after 48hr is when I notice about 1/8 inch drop on the oil dipstick. On the 450 hr mark i removed the side covers and inspected the gear bay and crank case and very clean no metallic particles none whatsoever, still gave her an intense internal flushing, I used mixed gas to clean the inside, waited hours before reassembly, was dry but oiled from the 2stroke to keep from drying completely. Anyone think it's ok to clean it with mixed gas every 5 hundred hours I'd like an opinion if it's ok for this? It seems good no harm to anything, IP pump doesn't seem affected, doesn't affect the internal red paint.
I'm not using full power only about 600 Watts so it shouldn't burn much oil I assume. For those of you that installed an external oil filter I highly envy you all! The 3hp R165 model has no forced oil pump, uses centrifugal force oiling the mains, splash for the upper rod, and a barbaric worm drive pump on the cam end for the rockers. I'm thinking adding an electric drive oil pump just for passing threw an filter but perhaps it'll consume to much power? I'll still may give it a go changing oil every 100 hrs sucks. With a filter you'll get up to 200hr intervals. Recently for an added security feature, if the engine was to over heat it will deactivate the fuel solenoid switch shitting her down fairly y
Quickly. I'll explain in the next video I'll post today. Fortunately there is a lot
More to the system id like to discuss on and maybe get some input on some ideas, so this thread may get a little longer haha. 

i have used ATF as a crankcase cleaner in larger diesel engines for a very long time
for instance an old 6.9 liter ford/ih where i would add 1 qt of atf to the crankcase and run the engine for 5 minutes or so with no load
atf is pretty good at cleaning thing up.

for a small diesel like these changfa types maybe 8 oz of atf
then run the engine with no load for 5 minutes or so, and then drain the crankcase, i think you will find the crankcase will be pretty clean

don't worry about a small amount of atf damaging the gear train, i have seen a few different high hp semi's using atf in fuller transmissions
and the gears did not show accelerated wear, and that was full time under load operation.. at overhaul time, the gear sets generally were all reused
and the insides were sparkling clean.

as for the rod insert brg, or main bushings, i don't think a slight reduction in viscosity is going to cause a problem at all.

much easier than having to get inside and scrub everything down, and rinse out, and probably get into places you can't otherwise.

fwiw

bob g

It's still running non- stop since my last post Haha! I do oil changes every 4 days.  I'll have to post a pic for what I got for parts, it was such a great deal I couldn't pass lol! 10 piston rings sets, 6 plungers, 6 nozzles, 2 valve kits, and a 5 pack of rod bearings. I hear parts are hard to come by,  so far after 4 years my source haven't let me down!  My apologies I haven't posted any vids I will post a YouTube link soon as I will try to upload a few. A few add ons I made, I fabricated a fuel shutoff solenoid to the block temp gauge it shuts down the engine quick when temps read over 98C, also I got very fed up whenever it ran outta fuel I have to bleed the system, make a big mess and deal with a rough running engine for a few hours till air pockets clear up. I fabricated a float system in a 20L fuel tank, it deactivates  the fuel solenoid and shuts down the system. It runs roughly 9L per 24 hrs, average 600 Watts.  

Hey JesseMcB,

Where are you getting parts?
I may need some R175 items

Veggie, My source website is called yoycart.com, they have a different way of selling things but it works! First make
An account, then  search for your parts, add to shopping cart, shipping prices  is estimated with the weight of the product, example a head gasket for my R165 weights 32grams exact., they calculate shipping with weight,  youPay with credit card, they will ahead photos of the product before they ship to you if you ask. so far I purchased over $500 in parts, 8 orders over the last 4 years and never had a problem. If you have a hard time finding what you need let me know and I can find the parts on site, send you the parts  numbers, sometimes the sites search engine shows to much products. They have every part needed for all the china diesel engines from the smallest air cooled to the large water cooled series.  Prices are incredible I got 10 piston ring sets. 6 plungers, 6 nozzles, 2 valve kits, 12 head gaskets for my R165 all for $150 Canadian, shipping is EMS express takes average 10 days.

Also check out eBay a seller is selling all parts for the water cooled types but they are expensive, except for cylinder sleeves they are around $45 us shipping included, I purchased one before Christmas for the r165 for a future rebuild. It's at the point now I have enough parts I don't feel like I'm on the moon with the engine haha!

Thanks,
Yes, the prices are good.
I can get a cylinder sleeve for an R175 for $11.58

Quote from: veggie on January 01, 2021, 09:32:04 AM

Thanks,
Yes, the prices are good.
I can get a cylinder sleeve for an R175 for $11.58

Thanks for that link. There is a nm195 that is running a hammer mill here and it is good to know where to find parts. How long does shipping usually take?

Quote from: Tom on January 01, 2021, 02:16:43 PM

Quote from: veggie on January 01, 2021, 09:32:04 AM

Thanks,
Yes, the prices are good.
I can get a cylinder sleeve for an R175 for $11.58

Thanks for that link. There is a nm195 that is running a hammer mill here and it is good to know where to find parts. How long does shipping usually take?

JesseB noted that they ship by EMS Courier and it takes around 10 days

  When you make the order they can ship out quick, but  it can take up to a week max till they have it ready, they request the parts from the manufacturer, the parts arrive at the warehouse, they weight them for shipping costs, if you requested they will send photos of the product before shipping to confirm it's what  you needed. Then they package and ship.   Usually when it's shipped EMS they may ask for import fees when arrival to your country, depending on the value of the package and country's import laws.  Usually for me it was like $20 for a decent order over $100. The quickest delivery from the day I made my purchase was about 8 days. With the pandemic things may be a little slower haha.

An update on the engine, it's been very cold here in Nova Scotia average  -14c   /  10F daily, and with no glow plugs I'm keeping her going non stop for over 9 days only to change oil every 4 days. I can shut her down for a while and cold start with a intake flame for heat but i feel to run her nonstop with no cold start will lengthen longevity by 2 fold, my guess though lol. The engine has 1600 hours and finally stopped burning oil, burns very clean the exhaust is basically invisible under load, smells nice and sweet like diesel should. I'm thinking keeping her going nonstop is better for it during cold weather so it's non wearing its self out under such freezing cold starts. I will be posting  a vidio link on YouTube, and trying to post some pics Aswell soon as possible. I think this engine I ovehauled is going to make a new record for the genuine Changfa R165 diesels. Anyone that has a true genuine of these smallest water cooled diesel in production I'll tell you they will last you a lifetime. The only problem i ever had is running out of fuel constantly and wrecking the o rings on the banjo bolts from constantly bleeding the lines, easy fix get a pack of copper rings. If anyone has anymore of these engines  for sale give me a ring lol. Really seriously...

At low temperatures what weight oil are you using?
Are you using full synthetic oil?
Where you able to take readings on block, head and exhaust?

Very nice setup :)

I'm using standard shell rotella 15w 40, im going to make the switch to full synthetic as it's finally broken in. I can't belive how long it takes for it to break in, I wanted to be sure it was fully ready for the switch, I know it's ready now. over 1500 hours. I'll have to figure how to post pictures and videos ASAP, I'm having a problem with the correct format but I'll figure it out! I'll post some info on the engine, pictures and YouTube links.

That little 165 is really doing well.
Is it mounted in a shed or generator building? or just a small dog house?
I assume it's main job is to keep the battery bank charged.
Running 24/7 must heat the engine room nicely  :D

Jesse McB, I just remembered something. Some engine manufacturers do not recommend synthetic oil. It might be best to stay with a good conventional diesel oil.

Henry

Rotella T6 15-40 synthetic has proven to be an excellent lubricant for heavy duty diesel engines.
Good cold start properties too.
Here in the frigid north, it is the standard oil for Ford/International/Navistar Powerstroke engines.
Many use the Rotella T6 5-40 Oil in winter for it's cold start properties.
I run it in my Ford F250 diesel, my VW Jetta Diesel, and my changfa engines.
 

you might also check with your local mack truck dealer

the reason i state this is based on the fact that mack built flat tappet engines long after everyone else built
roller tappet engines.

so i would expect that they still sell oil that is intended for flat tappet engines, like the changfa/listers and the "oids"

fair warning though
the mack oil is 15/40 which i would recommend for continuous use, but it is near black out of the jug and stinks bad!

but the mack engines ran long lives using the stuff.

if and when i get around to putting my changfa trigen (195) and its little brother cogen (175) i will be going to mack to buy the
nasty smelling stuff.

Henry and i discussed the synthetic issue, and he mentioned the question of whether or not the seals are made of a material that
would not degrade with a synthetic oil... that is a good question.

one i would be hesitant to find and answer to, at least empirically.

from what i think i read, the OP wrote that the 165 ran around 1600 hours before he figured it fully broke in and quit using oil
while i have a question as to why it took so long, i will leave that alone without comment, however

if the engine is now doing what it is expected to do, and not using oil or very little oil, then i wouldn't change to a synthetic.
changing to a mack 15/40 flat tappet spec oil shouldn't be a problem with consumption,  or seal leads, at least it shouldn't.

fwiw

bob g

btw, i would love to have gotten a truck load of electric start 165 engines when carol stream was selling them on ebay 15 plus years ago!

Bob,

What do you think is the black additive in that MAC oil ? Lithium perhaps?

Moly?

Most pictures are also split and shifted with different shades of colors.

Hello everyone! I'm alive and well and I hope your all doing well! Is been sometime and I'm planning making a new thread on this R165 diesel within the next week!  Or maybe continue on this forever lasting thread lol?  Its been put away I think since 2021 with over 2200 hours, i did a tear down and never put it back together! Im planning showing pics of the wear and tear and build it back up with new parts just for the fun of it! I've acquired many new parts over the last few years, even found a valve seat cutter kit for the engine my reason for that purchased will be explained soon! I have some cool gear for the fuel system, a very simple self purging fuel system, many pics of interesting parts and gadgets coming soon!  ;)

Looking forward to it.

Yes please post your experience in getting it running again.. Also if you know of a decent parts supplier for these little 165 and 170 engines, let us know.. I have a jiangdong R-170 that needs a few parts to get going again..  Good luck.