Micro CoGen.

Hi Bob,

How are you my FRIEND, and many thanks...

If you are serious about keeping the forum, even if its less active.

e mail met at lloyd at studio 413 dot com. I will send a check for $ 250 use it as you will... just need a mail addy.

lloyd

Some 10 years ago I set out to build a diesel powered dc battery charger for my boat. I had ideas, and concepts...this site allowed me to fulfill that goal.

9 years later here I sit on anchor with my little diesel/dc charger...charging my batteries as I sit on anchor in BC, Canada.

I have to say it is one of the most successful things I have accomplished in my life. I had a vision, I had the tenacity, I had the help of this forum, MOST of all I had the help of MobileBob. This site rocks....My co-gen has provided all the hot water, and battery charging My family has needed while on anchor for the past 9 years, on average 6 weeks of day in and day out at a time.

lloyd

Hello all I know and remember, and all whom are new since my last visit.

I'm sitting on Flying Cloud up in BC with my little Perky-Cat-Volvo purring away charging my bats. It hit me that I miss this forum and how much it added to my life and my project development. So I worked at it and finally was able to log-on.

To say hi all...hi.

Life has been good ...but just recently got bad news....the big C, and its terminal.....but such is life...live what you got...make the best of the time you have left....LOVE LIFE & Friends & Family..as well as country.

lloyd

i am going to hang out a little more

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Thermostat-housing-kit.html

Not being  an L&P guy, i happened on this site, and see that someone is trying to become the source.

You L&P guys decided.

Lloyd

ps it might be old news

Uncle Bob,

I'm still here.

I'm good for $20.00

If you fall short, I'll grantee the balance.

Now that you mention it, I think a sticky at the top of the forum for donation is a good Idea. Microrocogen@paypal.com

Then we can ring the bell as needed.

Lloyd

For efficiency use a separate ground cable from each alternator to it's own battery. All the better if the alternators have an isolated ground. Same for the  AC gen, use a separate cable bolted to the gen back to the AC ground bus. Now make a cable from the gen frame to an earthing ground rod driven at 6 ft as close to the gen as possible.

Lloyd

Quote from: Dualfuel on March 19, 2014, 05:46:36 PM
Dear Llyod,
The cart tows the wood trailer....if it runs out of power, I would be able to just leave it. As it is now, I have to charge it at the oil shed with its solar system, and limping back on dead batteries is a PITA, much easier to dismount and wander off in an ADHD moment, and come back to find the cart charged.
Armor..ha ha...they cut ALL the trees down, no need for armor anymore...I sure have had my fair share of stuff smashed by trees though...

DF

That's why I said re-think IT!!!!

Under my plan you have two trailers, and one GC/cart/Tractor.

Now tow the purpose built  Power trailer to the wood pile. Now this trailer is the POWER Center. So it holds your, bats, inverters, and solar panels. So now you have a charging source at the wood pile, for the saws as well as the GC/cart/Tractor. As well as the one at the shop.

The armor is only to stop the would be thieves, from departing you of your duly needed electrical components, that makes the Power Station valuable, at the wood pile.

Note second trailer, is for hauling the wood.

Lloyd

Hi Bruce,

here is a try.

Buy 20 foot lengths of type L hard copper, then solder on a cap at one end. fill the pipe a couple of inches shy full, of fine silica sand, then solder on another cap.

Build yourself a white oak jig to the radius you need for the bends to fit the tank. Then with map gas heat the radius and bend it around the jig.

Cut the caps off each end; blow/wash the sand out. HD sells a copper swagging tool for about 9.99, that you use with a hammer, then map gas the end, and then swagg the end up, then solder up. No fittings needed.

You can do the whole Heat/X in copper, with no fittings.

Lloyd

Quote from: BruceM on March 14, 2014, 02:23:30 PM
Hi Guys,
I'm finishing construction of my big (128SF) drainback solar panel for hot water heating (space and domestic).  I have built the 700 gallon insulated storage tank, ready to put in the liner.  My water pressure is just 12 psi, from a hill mounted tank. 

I'm interested in the "batch" tank within my tank heat exchanger for my domestic hot water, but am having a hard timing finding an affordable tank. I can't use a water heat tank since the outside of those tanks would corrode when submerged.  New galvanized steel tanks are out of sight, cost wise, and stainless steel pressure tanks seem insane as well.

My last resort is a copper tube exchanger, but in winter my incoming water is near freezing, so according to the figures I've seen, I would need at least 180 feet of 1/2" copper ( as 6-8 coils in parallel) at 2 GPM.  (38F to 105F).  This is $360 just for the soft copper, perhaps $420 all together for copper cost.  I think that even 180 feet is marginal.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

PS-  I can't use a big coil of 1" pex as the exchanger/batch heater as I don't tolerate hot water from pex for showers. Too much plasticizers smell, especially the first year. 

How about re-thinking.

Leave the GC as is and use it for the tractor. Then you are free to build yourself a purpose built trailer/ Power Station. It can then be, the bat bank, solar support,  and inverter house.  You could go as far as building it to IP-68 folded up or out. You might even armor it, depending on the neighborhood, and how often you visit the woodpile.

Use your tractor/GC to tow it to the wood-pile, and leave it.

Lloyd

Quote from: Dualfuel on March 18, 2014, 04:52:10 AM
Thx Mike for the links,
I have three saws...and I might as well review them here...I have the Husqvarna 316e which is the cadillac of electric saws...$300 with a 2 yr warranty..and you end up using it! The switches quit working on these saws. The good news is they are rebuildable and easy to change. $26 a pop, for switches.
The saw I use the most is a Remington 16" Versa saw...I think its 1650watts. Its $80.00 at Menards and for an additional $8, Menards gives you a 1 yr free replacement warranty. We cut 8 full cords last season with a Versa, before stripping the gears and taking it back to Menards and getting a replacement with no questions asked...
Finally, when all else fails I have an ancient Poulan electric that is painfully slow, 14" bar, cracked handle, but still works after 15 years. I paid $40 at Walmart for it, then. I don't recommend either the Poulan or the Husqvarna.
All saws are brush motors. All saws have worked on both MSW and PSW inverters, or real AC from generators.

It is entirely possible that the Versa will run on less then 5000watts...I run it on a Magnum 2812, and a "Kaching" Ebay 5K MSW inverter. It does equally well on both.

The constraints I am working around are: The Melex golf cart is originally 36volt, but the solenoids operate at 12v, and the motor control is entirely mechanical, so bumping it up to 48v is the only way to match the solar equipment to cart voltage....meaning, I got laughed at, when I tried to buy 36volt inverters, charge controllers, and panels.
The other constraint is more mechanical...namely that I am going to leave the cart out at the wood pile exposed to the elements, so I need robust components. I also need to be really good about the enclosure for the inverter.
I cannot imagine building a roof on the cart that could hold more then 4 Kyrocera 135w panels so, I am looking at a charge controller in the, less then 30amp range. Still you never know...if I built the roof like a kitchen table with fold up sides I might be able to double that wattage...although I have found that with a battery bank the size of the golf cart's 8, six volt T-105s, I can cut all day in full sun with 280watts worth of panels. Please read "cut all day" as several minutes of cutting and hours of lift and tote, putting the wood on the buck, and loading it in the trailers.
The caveat here is that I am going to test the melex on 48v pulling the wood trailer...I am looking for a little more "snoose" going up hills with the trailer. If it does do what I think it will, then I will begin welding the roof in earnest.
DF

Quote from: veggie on December 17, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
As the time draws near.... best of the season to everyone !
This is a great Forum, lets keep it rolling  

cheers,
veggie

>>> Click To Enlarge <<<

May I say to each and EVERYONE, I hope Your..... Holidays are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's hard trying to be politically correct......but stillllllll!!!!! love everyone.


Thanks Vege,

For the inspiration to step up and wish everyone of us and all;

HAPPY Days To You.





Lloyd

Flying Cloud is a cover girl.


They shot this while we were cruising this past August. We got an email from them in late September, asking for our permission.

Lloyd

Quote from: Cornelius on November 05, 2013, 12:17:42 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't 30A charging close to ideal to your 320Ah bank? (C/10)

I think a good external regulator with an external temperature compensation (since your batteries are around 50-60F) would do your batteries good.

No

A healthy well built FLA, can take 25-30% of C/20 in charge rate especially if cold.

For a charger working as a charger/power supply I speck 40-50% depending on house loads. A good three step chrarger that is temp compensated can never over charge a good battery. The terminal voltage controls the amperage by the voltage control.

But an undersized charger could under charge bats, while acting as charger/power supply for house loads and charging at the same time.

A battery can only accept as much current as it internal resistance allows, with a smart 3-stage/temp compensated it must drop current to maintain voltage control.

Lloyd

Quote from: Jens on November 04, 2013, 06:18:32 PM

Quote from: Lloyd on November 04, 2013, 05:45:11 PM
Jens,

Make sure you equalize each bat separately, Not In Parallel.

When you said Westerbeke 4107, I just assumed it was the Perkins. Kubotas, and Yanmars don't like much side loading the crank. If you mount a second alternator opposite side it will help. Denso also makes a 100 & 130 amp hairpin alt. That would be my choice for your setup.

Lloyd

Quote
Thanks Lloyd! I had all three batteries hooked up in parallel (the two house batteries and a small start battery). I don't recall ever seeing anything about separating the batteries but will do so tomorrow. I only had time for about an hour of equalizing today. Tomorrow I should be able to do a full 4 hour cycle though (my charger switches back to normal charge mode after 4 hours).
Question .... the charger has 3 outputs for three batteries. Could I equalize all batteries at the same time if I hook up a separate output to each positive terminal of each battery and keep a common negative ? The charger is a ProNautic 1250.

Yes each bat must be measured by it's own resting voltage, in parallel the weaker bats will cause current to flow between the big and little sisters.

No a 3 terminal charger charges at the rate of the Primary#1 bat/terminal, it would require separate sense leads and separate logic, Xantrex had such a charger but it only lasted about 1 year in the market place, and couldn't do separate equalize.

It appears that bat 1-4d doesn't need an equalize, but bat2-4d has a large discrepancy between the last 2 cells, and I didn't see note of bat 3.

I am suspect of any resting voltage and SPG readings if all 3 bats were in parallel. SO to be accurate you must start over one bat at a time. This means fully charge, let rest for 24 hrs, bleed of any surface charge, then take a resting Voltage/SPG.

Quote
I am confused re the Westerbeke bit - I mentioned that the alternator is a Westerbeke 41017 (note the extra '1' in the number).

Yea, it was my error, I saw Wester....4107 and not 41017.

QuoteBased on the engine being a Kubota M35B, could you clarify for me what your suggestion is for a replacement alternator keeping in mind that the current unit is a very tight fit. Have you seen any mounting kits to mount a second alternator on this engine? Mounting does not seem to be straight forward for a second alternator. What would be your suggestion re the belt - would you leave the 3/8 belt (and all the pulleys) for the original alternator and would you run a second belt for the second (new) alternator ? .... or would you replace the current alternator and replace all pulleys for a larger belt ?

Thanks!

Yep, I am saying add a second alt, there is a factory add on pulley that bolts to the 3-bolt on the original pulley. There is also a factory bracket to mount the 2nd alt. But I think that is a non issue for someone with welding skills to fabricate there own. A 1/2 belt will drive the Denso 100-130 amp alt, because it's so much more efficient do to the hair pin stator design. And with the Balmar Controller you can dial it in with the belt manager, if it make dust.

Lloyd

Quote from: Jens on November 04, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
After resting for 12 hours, the voltage of my 2 4D batteries in parallel was 12.8V. The specific gravity readings are as follows:

Battery 1: 1.285, 1.285, 1.275, 1.275, 1.275, 1.285
Battery 2: 1.280, 1.275, 1.270, 1.275, 1.250, 1.220

Both batteries were new July 27, 2010

I am in the process of equalizing now to see if Battery 2 Cell 6 can be 'fixed'.

Jens,

Make sure you equalize each bat separately, Not In Parallel.

When you said Westerbeke 4107, I just assumed it was the Perkins. Kubotas, and Yanmars don't like much side loading the crank. If you mount a second alternator opposite side it will help. Denso also makes a 100 & 130 amp hairpin alt. That would be my choice for your setup.

Lloyd

Quote from: Jens on November 03, 2013, 01:50:32 PM

Quote from: Lloyd on November 03, 2013, 01:36:42 PM

Most alternators are going to operating most efficiently at about 2500 alternator rpm and about 50-60% loaded. This doesn't mean that the engine is going to operating most efficiently, especially if its a large engine/small alt..

On a sail boat we typically see 9 to 20 hp auxiliaries. This make a perfect solution, with no gen required. Size the alt and battery bank to 2-3 days load, make sure you consider Peukert, and bat temps. If your bats are cold they won't have near the voltage of warm bats, nor the amp hr availability. In the NW fall to spring period I find it's not uncommon for the bat temps to be low 50's to low 60's. This really effects voltage and amp hr., so you need to size the bank to the loads at temp.

With a small sailboat auxiliary, it can be both a generator and drive motor. Setup with a Balmar MC controller when at anchor you can run a large alternator that closely matches the available engine HP. Like a dc generator, then when you need to motor, setup a toggle switch and just flip it into small engine mode. You need to be mindful of the power take off requirements of the engine drive pulley/crank loads, and make sure you have an proper sized drive belt.

Lloyd

The engine is a 35 Hp unit, cruise RPM is between 2000 and 2300 RPM, engine pulley is 4 1/8 " diameter, Alternator pulley is 2 7/8" diameter so we are looking good there. The downside is the tiny 3/8" belt. Yes the batteries will be cold, probably in the 50-60 degree range you mentioned. Without major surgery, there is no room for additional batteries so I am stuck with 4 golf cart 6 volt units.
I actually have plenty power to operate the alternator when cruising but I like the idea of 'down shifting' (presumably via the temperature probe wire on the Balmer 614 regulator).
Are there good aftermarket sources for the bigger pulleys required or would they best be ordered through Westerbeke or Kubota ?

Here's a pdf for your engine http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CE0QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.westerbeke.com%2FproductBrochures%2Fw107.pdf&ei=ocF2UqOeMcSYiAK_wYCIBQ&usg=AFQjCNGuOWfA6H1ih6AjjQs-vSL5AeONtg&bvm=bv.55819444,d.cGE it makes 20 hp at 2000 rpm, probably a little less in the real world. 

Options
One or two extra Vee pulleys.
5", 6" or 7" diameter.
Adjustable flezible mounts.
Extra 40. 60. or 100 ampere alternator
mounted.
40 ampere alternator mounted in place
of standard generator.

That would be the way to go, the the existing alt and mount a new 2nd alt with proper belts. We know that it can at least drive a 100 amp alt on the power take off, I'm sure it can handle the "triple nickel" at rated 160 it needs about 4.8 hp.

lloyd