Micro CoGen.

Quote from: mobile_bob on March 22, 2023, 09:40:31 AMmy bet?

1/4 mile,  18.99 sec @ 79.3mph

are you going to bleach the tires?



bob g

edit: make that 73.9 mph

In the first (only) test run a couple days ago to test the app. I beat that time not even trying.

LOL, No Bleach!

Just heard from my mentor. Rev limiter will be set to 4600 rpm. This is the shift rpm for the first two gears.

This Thursday or Friday I will be doing a 1/4 mile run with the Truck.

Will post 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile time.

Truck specs:
• 1989 Ford F150, long bed.
• GVWR 5450 lbs. But truck will be empty, and with a full tank of fuel.
• Carb'd 4.9/300 six.
• 5 speed
• 3.08 rear
• 2wd
• Rev limiter will be set to 4000 rpm.

Any guesses what the in-line six truck will do?

Who said in-line sixer's can't have fun.
He is a retired Ford engineer. This guy helped me out a lot with my project.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6tOzJHOdw&list=UUXyV0oRA3mc0uTmPPWYW5QQ&index=16

Here is another post on 2/18/2023:

"Just completed roughly a 120 mile drive this morning on back roads doing 45 mph to 55 mph. The truck averaged 20.3 mpg."

Anyone that brings up a comment that carb'd vehicles cannot get good fuel mileage need to do some more reading.

Everything has to be properly matched and tuned together.  You just can't buy a carb and distributor and throw it on and expect them to work well. Chances are, it won't.

Since the final tuning, the truck has been left alone and just driven. Life has got simpler.

Here is one recent post I made on another forum on the date of 2/16/2023 about my 1989 F150 with 4.9/300 inline six. I've been working on this truck since 2021.

This is one of the reasons why I've have not been on this forum as much as I wanted.

Project Update:

Lots has happened in over a year.

The Sniper is off, and a Holley 390 is on.

The reason for changing to a carb setup is:
I wanted a fuel system that I can be in control when it needs to be repaired or serviced. Since this truck is my everyday driver, it needs to be reliable. And, I feel comfortable with a carb setup knowing that I can keep parts on hand in case it needs to be repaired.

Before I start going into detail about the project, I would like to thank everyone that helped with this project. Without the guidance, patience and support, the project would have been abandoned or wouldn't have came out to what it is today. I can't express enough thanks.

To the good news,
The truck is running very well. It starts right up and runs smoothly. All the bad stuff that I've been dealing with are gone. The engine ran strong on a very rare test. Its power is felt from Idle up to 4000 rpm. (Rev limiter was temporarily set to 4000 and was brought down to 3500 after the test) After 3500 the engine could use a cam but it went up to 4000 with no problem. There are no flat spots that I can pick up at any rpm range when driving it. The power is so good that It doesn't drive like the same truck, and I constantly have to watch my speed when driving.

The reworked Holley 390 carb, Water heated Offenhauser C manifold, reworked Duraspark II distributor and MSD6AL ignition box are a very good match for the stock EFI engine.

Now to the great news!
I just took it out for a 200 mile trip. Speeds were mostly 55 to 65 mph. Two times I got on it to merge on to the interstate. And once I got on it to pass a loaded semi going up a grade. The MPG recorded was 19.6. If I did not get on it, and drove at a constant 55 or lower, MPG would have been in the low 20's.

The fuel used was 93 octane. From the same gas station, and same pump.

I am very pleased with the project. And I think it's good enough to leave it alone.

The only thing I'm thinking about is, another cam that reduces the DCR so lower grade gas can be used. But this can wait until summer.




Here is some Information:

• 1989 Ford 4.9/300 in-line six engine with high swirl (Fast Burn) head.

• Initial timing is set to 10 degrees BTDC.

• Zero mechanical advance up to 1200 rpm.

• 19 degrees total mechanical advance @ 2850 rpm.

• Vacuum Advance
For Towing: 12 degrees total. Starts at 5 inHg. Ends at 10 inHg. (Ported Vacuum.

For Normal Driving: 12 degrees total. Starts at 4 inHg. Ends at 9 inHg. (Ported Vacuum)


Spark Plugs:
Motorcraft Copper Core BSF44CA
Gap (In.) 0.044


Carburetor:
Holley 390 #0-8007

SPECS:
Primary Main Jet Holley #122-55 (#54)
Primary Power Valve 6.5
Primary Pump Nozzle Size 25
Accelerator Pump Cam color Orange
Secondary Spring Purple


Quick Fuel Secondary Metering Plate # 34-2QFT

SPECS:
.0292" idle feed restriction (Drill brass set screw to .0292")
Secondary Jet Holley #122-64 (#64)


Carb Spacer:
1" aluminum 4 hole 1.450 diameter holes


Intake Manifold:
Offenhauser C intake manifold with Coolent heating block:


Pressure Regulator:
Holley #12-881
Fuel Pressure 5 psi.


Engine Thermostat 195 degrees F.


Note: Stock low pressure in tank fuel pump works well. No need for a larger pump. The fuel lines are all Stock OEM up to where the high pressure fuel pump was. This is where rubber high pressure feed and return fuel line was used up to and from the Pressure Regulator.


She is not pretty but she's a keeper

The only fuel injection that would make any sense is if it's an engine with stock MPFI setup.  Everything from ECU to injectors including the stock manifold and throttle body. Oh, and let's not forget the O2 sensor. The manufacturer already did all the hard work.

If anyone is interested in TBI/CFI (central fuel injection), look into the GM TBI/CFI conversion's that people are doing. It's more expensive, and seems to work and would probably be more reliable. I almost tried this route. A huge advantage is parts availability an ease of servicing. Most parts are available at auto parts stores and the TBI/CFI can be repaired at home or on the roadside with simple tools.
But, it still won't match a MPFI setup.

It's hard to beat a properly matched and tuned carb setup. Another thing that people don't understand is the importance of intake manifold heat. I've seen lots of the heat riser's on manifold's made inoperative or taken off completely. This is a very bad move. Especially with today's gasoline.

With MPFI you don't have to worry about heat too much because the fuel is injected in the separate intake ports near the head. This setup is, and always be more efficient.

LOL, this is why the comment that I found from someone that understands both TBI/CFI (central fuel injection) and MPFI mentions, "Putting on CFI is like putting lipstick on a pig. When all is said and done, you've still got a pig."

Hope this helps,

It still works like a sniper. Anything that is heavily dependent on electronics is going to have issues. Parts availability is still a concern. I've learned my lesson. I don't want anything to do with TBI/CFI (central fuel injection), especially after market.

I would like to keep life as simple as possible.

Here are some posts from the # 1 forum where people go first for help when Sniper Issues come up. It's a well known company that builds fuel systems.

I don't think I have to go any further with this.

If anyone wants the link to check out the facts just send me a PM




07-31-2022, 10:46 AM
In my view, Sniper reliability suffers from three underlying issues.

ECU location – Having the ECU mounted on the throttle body subjects it to extreme heat and vibration. It's true that it's epoxy potted and I'm sure they're using top temperature spec components, but the constant vibration and thermal cycling will tease out any flaw in the build or design.

WBO2 – While this sensor is the key to the Sniper's flexibility, they are by nature, very delicate. Major automotive manufacturers devote thousands of engineering hours to placement, exhaust design, and heating profiles to ensure long life. The Sniper has one heating profile and placement is something that Holley can't control. This comes under, it's better to be lucky than good. I think the WBO2 should be looked at as a tuning aid only with the ultimate goal to achieve a well-tuned Open Loop system.

Chinese Component Sourcing - Don't get me wrong, the Chinese have the capability to out manufacture any country on the planet (take the iPhone or 8K High Definition displays for example), but they don't do it by default. Achieving those results requires a diligent driving force like Apple with tight specifications and a six sigma quality system. Apple has a whole platoon of engineers that live and work at Foxconn and their suppliers to ensure quality. I'm sure Holley has no such thing, so they get the default, which is usually a cheap copy of the original with nothing to control its quality. It'd be worth some additional cost to improve the quality and therefore reliability.
Just my 2 cents worth.


Sniper Long Term Reliability
04-13-2020, 08:53 AM
Hi Guys. I'd like to hear some feedback on anyone who has had a Sniper on there car for a couple years or so and how it's working. The reason I'm asking is we've been installing the Sniper EFI systems for a couple years now and over half of them have come back with a dead ECU, stuck open injector or injector that won't open. We did send out a couple injectors for testing and cleaning, but could not be fixed. We were told there's a internal problem with the dead ones. Just got a '64 Galaxy in. I installed the Sniper May 2018 and it's burning out WBO2 sensors in under a minute (two Bosch sensors), original lasted till last week. I'm going to check the voltage at the WBO2 ECU output to see if there's anything odd, I've heard of the problem before and again ECU fault.

Holley knows about these problems because as soon as I call in and explain the problem, they tell me send it in we'll email the info. They're very good with that. The Snipers ran good on all the cars we installed them on, but we're having trouble with long term reliability. It's costing us money and the worst part is a very upset customers. Your feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Joey.S
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06-20-2022, 06:08 PM
Here is a review I left on Holley.com that has been "awaiting" moderation for a few weeks now.
TL/DR long term reliability not good. After two years with the sniper and a HyperSpark ignition on my truck I have thrown in the towel and gone back to a carb and a dumb distributor. I think these could be a great products but the sniper unit is just too fragile and temperamental to be a viable option for me. The fragility and temperamental nature was made worse by the hit and miss documentation and tech support from Holley. The Holley forums are filled with people experiencing the same issues however they are very sparsely attended by actual Holley employees. If you ask for help on the forums you will generally be told that you have wiring and or EMI interference issues and need to re route all your wiring away from the spark plug wires. Not exactly easy or feasible on a SBC when the distributor sits inches from the unit and the wiring has to get to the firewall somehow. In each case when I had a failure Holley support responded via email after a day or so and after I provided the obligatory EMI/wiring assurances they recommend replacing components. In two years I have had to replace the throttle position sensor, the temperature sensor (required replacement of entire unit), the WBO2 sensor and most recently the idle air control valve. All of these with the exception of the TPS were replaced free of charge by Summit where I bought the unit but this always involved some back and forth with Holley to get it done as the official warranty expired long ago. The last straw was when the unit started very glitching/resetting itself while in operation causing a momentary loss of power, within minutes of starting this glitching I turned it off at a remote location and could not get it to start again. Two hours with a meter checking fuses and power connections later I noticed that the TPS sensor was reading 70% with the throttle closed. I unplugged the TPS and limped it home with the system glitching and backfiring every few seconds and then noticed that the display was displaying NAN values momentarily with it glitching continuously. It was on the limp home that I decided that I no longer had the patience to keep troubleshooting and fixing this unit and would never trust it to not leave me stranded in some remote off road location. I pulled the unit and the HyperSpark ignition system that I installed with it and they are both now living on the shelf in my workshop.


06-22-2022, 10:27 AM
I've had Snipers that worked for years. I've also had some that failed right out of the box. It's a total crap shoot. At this point in time (2022) I'd say that a carburetor is more reliable than a Sniper. I prefer the Sniper since I like to dink around with the datalogger and the digital tuning and stuff like that, but if I had to trust my life to a system I'd use a carburetor rather than aftermarket EFI. I do trust OEM EFI. I have a couple of Toyota vehicles that are 20 years old and they still have the original wideband O2 sensors in them. They run like Swiss watches year after year. Holley doesn't know anything about OEM level reliability.


06-22-2022, 10:14 PM
Yup, installed about a dozen Snipers on customer's rides & one on my rock crawler. Some were great, others not good. Holley needs to get their QC sorted. I understand the desire to do what has to be done to hit a certain price point, but if it comes at the expense of reliability, it's only going to hurt the brand. I have one toy running a Terminator, and the other a Dominator, with absolutely no issues whatsoever. Going forward (just priced a Sniper install today), I definitely pad the estimate to allow for issues, or try to upsell to a Terminator system.

06-22-2022, 11:22 PM
I had a Dominator system in my Pro Street Duster project car. Worked great until I blew the tune away when cycling the ignition switch. That was such a huge design error by the Holley software team that I lost some confidence in their ability to build robust products. You can literally blow the tune away in any HP or Dominator system by cycling the ignition key rapidly.

07-29-2022, 02:59 PM
Hi AndyF. Did Holley say improper installation or wiring not checked when the Sniper burned its ECU straight away? Or did they say it was tested before they sent it out, so it's not a Holley problem?

Carbs are easy to replace parts and overall if needed.

As I mentioned before. The Holley Snipers have to be sent in for repairs. And, it can take over eight weeks to be repaired. And that is if the parts are in stock.

DKMC, your observations are correct. It's funny that you brought this up. I just walked in looking at the tailpipe on the truck noticing that it's grey. With the sniper it was always black.
Since the The Holley 390 4 barrel was on the truck drives much better in every way. And it has much more power. Been working on Holley's since the early seventies. I understand what needs to be done to make then operate properly. Very few carbs work out of the box.

Two important things to have when tuning a carb. A good wide band AFR meter and vacuum gauge. Without these, it hard to get a carb tuned right.

Was good watching the video minus the Holley Sniper. The thing ran very smoothly. A carb set up properly would have done a the same thing minus the worries of having the TBI giving out. As most of you know, I'm not a fan of Snipers. What I want is see how the 1100 Sniper setup holds up within time. Give it 5 years or 1000 hours runtime. Which ever comes first.

For an emergency standby generator, I would have carb. Nothing else. There is a good reason why carbs are used on small engine aircraft's. Not including experimental. And some of the experimental guy's are nuts anyways.

Reliability is the key. And the Sniper units have not proven to be reliable. Lots of problems with them. Search the web. LOL I still have one I'm trying to get rid of. They only lasted about 10,000 miles each before they started having problems.

By the way, my 1989 F150 with 4.9/300 six inline is getting mid to high 18's up to low 20's highway (20.3 recorded) with a Holley 390 4 barrel. I got tired of messing with the Holley Sniper 2300 and removed it. The Sniper only averaged 14-15 mpg when it was operating properly. Yea, after 2-1/2 years of messing with the sniper's and trying to keep them operating properly I'm tired of them. Actually I'm sick of them.

Overall, the video showed good information about the electric governor/controller. This part was very interesting.

A 300 Ford and a 292 Chevy are both good engines. But I prefer the 300 Ford due to better parts availability.

Both engines have proven themselves throughout the years to be tough reliable engines.

 

The slant six is an ok engine. But my opinion is there is no comparison between the Ford 300 six and a slant six. The 300 six is one of the toughest inline six engine's out there. It's been manufactured from 1966 to 1996. They have been used in so many different applications. A very simple and reliable engine.

I just reworked my 1989 F150 300/4.9 inline six and it became a very well mannered daily driver. If driven normally it has achieved 20.3 mpg. The torque the engine produces from idle to over 2500 is quite impressive.

Keeping things simple in this day and time is more important than ever.