thinking of exploring another option

[mobile_bob]

there are many folks living in small to mid size communities, and some in large cities where they might be able to use
a cogen, "if" it makes economic sense, and "if" the thing is quiet enough not to upset the neighbors, and "if" the exhaust is
clean enough not to be seen or worse smelled.

so this is what i am thinking, and this comes on the heals of my decision to buy a house in town, that has natural gas available.

perhaps a small 4 cylinder gas engine coupled to an st12-15, along with all the other neat driven component i wanted to use
anyway, such as battery charging alternators, A/C compressor, waterpump, etc

here is my thinking, we routinely think of a gas engine as being less efficient than a diesel, and the is generally so, however

when we are considering a prime mover for cogen, where we are recovering the waste heat available, is there really a difference in
overall efficiency between a gas vs diesel prime mover in cogen?   i don't think so

certainly a gas engine converted for nat gas or propane would be far cleaner than diesel in particulate matter, and if it use a catalyst probably CO and nitrous compounds.

heat exchangers for the cooling system would be a wash, whatever works for one will certainly work equally well with the other

heat exchangers for the exhaust would be likely better overall on the gas engine if only because they would not carbon up like those
exchangers typically used on diesel engine's

then there is the epa angle, the epa doesn't like diesel and they are not likely to change their position anytime soon as i see it, so

maybe it is time to at least start the discussion on the use of a automotive 4 cylinder gas engine fitted with a nat gas or propane carb?

most will make 20-30hp at 1800rpm, all have excellent cooling system, in place, all have excellent oil systems complete with real filters
there are likely millions of them available out of wrecked cars at very reasonable prices or bought from rebulders for about the same price as a surplus center yanmar 2banger diesel

i am thinking why not take for instance the 2.3 liter ford engine, it has a proven history as being a tough sonofabitch, there are high compression pistons available should one want to increase the mechanical efficiency of burning natgas or propane. they run quiet, require no concrete to mount, have high nickel content blocks meaning they will wear forever with good maintenance and clean air/fuel.

so the pro column might include

1. widely available
2. competitive price
3. relatively quiet operation
4. reliable and long lived
5. excellent cooling system design
6. excellent oil/lube system design
7. parts are widely available and relatively inexpensive
8. reliable and cheap electric starter
9. easy to mount, requires no massive concrete base
10. can be easily converted to run on gas, nat gas or propane
11. accessory drive capable for added driven components, many mounts readily available
12. certain models were rated for peak torque at 1800rpm making them a good match for direct drive generator
13. possible to run engine on wood/producer gas or methane


list of cons

1. it is not a diesel so it cannot readily run on waste oils
2. has an ignition system that will require periodic maintenance and parts replacement, (spark plugs, cap/rotor, wires)
3. physically longer package for direct drive than a belt driven diesel genset of even a direct drive genset
4. runs at 1800 instead of 650-1000rpm, (not negative comparison to a changfa, but certainly as compared to a lister/oid)
5. requires a connection to nat gas (city) or propane (offgrid or where nat gas is unavailable)
6. *add other cons to this list

i am only suggesting perhaps it is time to at least think about and discuss this option, it doesn't have to be a 2.3 ford, it could be any number of small 4cylinder engine's. i only suggest the 2.3 because of it long production run, its proven reliability and availability of both the used engine's and repair parts.

personally i am going to give this some serious thought

bob g

[mobile_bob]

an added thought

if as a group it was decided to go with a specific engine, it would make the project more doable for everyone
all sorts of things could be engineered and replicated, such as mounts, drive systems, manifolds/exchangers etc.

making it to where everyone wasn't reinventing the wheel separately over and over again.

it also opens the door to group buys of things like nat gas or propane carbs,  electronic governors, bellhousings
waterpumps, starters and all sorts of stuff that likely would reduce costs significantly over everyone doing it individually
using all sorts of different prime movers.

so what do you guys think?

bob g

[Henry W]

Bob, I lost the whole post I just wrote. I don't have time to write tonight about the Ford 2.3 SOHC engine. All I can say is I love that engine. I built some pretty strong engines out of them. Some over 300Hp. at 8500 RPM. To bad I just sold a set of Brand new Crower Sportsman Rods rated for 500Hp for the  Ford 2.3 SOHC engine.
But the good thing is I will keep the KB Hypereutectic Piston just in case.

I will post more about that engine.

But I got some good pictures of the pistons that I was ready to post tonight.

Henry

[Henry W]

#2

[Henry W]

#3

[Henry W]

#4

[Henry W]

#5

[mobile_bob]

i found a 2.3 mustang motor with bellhousing/clutch and a 5 speed manual trans for 5 hundred bucks
out here on craigslist
don't need the trans, but having the bellhousing makes making up an accessory drive very easy.
the engine is supposed to be a good runner, with 94k miles on it.

might check into it this week

bob g

[Henry W]

Oh, Just to let some of you know that are getting confused.

I do know how to build a strong 1800 RPM engine out of the Ford 2.3 SOHC.

That is what is so great about this engines. They are a very flexable engine to work with.

Henry

[Henry W]

Bob, What year is it? Just make sure it does not have a dual plug head.

[mobile_bob]

got to thinking i might also be able to get a propane carb setup from a forklift boneyard, and adapt it for nat gas use.

the more i think about this, the more i am liking the prospects

i have no idea what year it is, he didn't list the model year in the ad, i will call him tomorrow and find out the particulars

bob g

[Henry W]

That sounds good.

Henry

[BioHazard]

Now you're talkin' my language! Looks like somebody beat you to the punch though:
http://www.olympianpower.com/cda/files/2478365/7/LEHF0010-00.pdf
I've been studying those specs for a while, mostly looking at the fuel consumption rate. Who makes that 2.4L engine...GM? One thing I noticed is that it gets it's best fuel economy at full load.

When I calculate everything out, I can run a natural gas cogen and make cheaper electricity than the local utility if I'm using all the heat. I just can't decide on an engine. I'm planning a new 40x60 shop with a small basement for an engine room, I plan on using a generator as the only source of heat.

[highwater]

I have decided that NG is the way I am going.
That's one reason I haven't hauled home any of the heavy iron CI engines yet.
I installed an 1.25 inch poly gas line year ago, from the meter around to the back side of the house.
Gas Co. set a higher flow meter.

I do not have nor expect to acquire any source for waste oil,  and going into town for rationed fuel is way down on my list. Ultra long term was seed oil, but seriously kidding myself there.
The line I am on only has 3 other meters at this end, and was replace with poly ~10 years ago all the way back to the main line mainhole in town. And you really have to know where that manhole is. What I saying is, for me; if things grow dark I would rather take my chances on NG.

Been thinkin 2-3 cylinders simply because I don't need all the heat, but 4 would be alright.

Randall

[KeithO]

Just to play the devils advocate here....
I know many people build stuff here, not because they have to , But because they can.

But , Just because we are changing fuel types we shouldn't be abandoning the virtues of tried and true stationary engines.

Simplicity
Cast iron
Built in governors

How about a V4 Wisconsin genset , some are OHV propane/nat gas
Air to air heat exchange for house heating
Exhaust and sump heat exchange for water heating
Megajolt ignition to get rid of the magneto or distributor and lets you play with advance curves.

I have a VE4 5kw genset project like this waiting in line.....

Cheers
Keith