Micro CoGen.

Well I was able to spin it up to 2300 rpm today with a combination of pulleys that I had. No load was 46 volts. Not enough voltage for a 48v bank. Looks like it will probably want at least 2800 rpm to produce the voltage I'm looking for 

Quote from: keith71 on September 16, 2023, 05:45:00 AM

Quote from: RJ on September 13, 2023, 01:48:08 PMWell hiccup number one came to fruition 

Rectifier came in a day early, my hasty calculations implied the voltage would be the sum the of the three phases, this isn't correct its the L-L-L mean * 1.35, so in reality spinning at the current speed of ~1250 rpm I'm only getting about 25v DC. Which is interesting because I was told these ran at 1800 RPM. My small motor can't spin the head any faster without billowing some smoke. I have a larger motor but not the correct pulley's for them.

Depending on how your generator is wound, perhaps you need 2 three phase to single phase rectifiers instead of just one. I dont know enough either way just something to look at.. This video is long but if you skip ahead a bit to 27:45 minutes  you will see how he wires it. Might be because it is wired 2 in hand as Bob would say.. So there are 6 wires to connect in a regular alternator. 2 wires for each phase.. ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL8W5hipaLM

I'll take a look at it tomorrow. I was thinking while doing some yard work today. I wonder if I can rectify each phase on it's own then once in DC put them in series ? food for thought, it actually a lot of fun to start working on a project that's been on the back burner for over a decade. 

Quote from: Henry W on September 15, 2023, 09:48:27 AMRJ,
When I had that thing running when mounted on the Ford LRG425, I believe it put out around 48 volts unloaded, un-rectified at 1800 rpm's. I can't remember.

If I remember correctly, wasn't there another PM head mounted on the end where the pulley is mounted?

Wow, it's been so long ago. Time sure flies.

Here is a link:
https://www.shawneepower.com/
Eric is the owner. He has the rights to build these. I spoke with him some time ago and he mentioned that they are somewhat different than his. Eric might be able to help you figure it out.

Bob G. has two of those PMG heads also. But, I'm not sure if they are the same as what you have.

Bob and Eric at Shawnee Power would probably be the most help.

Oh, Eric is a member on this forum.

I have two units. My assumption is the one attached to the engine is the other unit that was mounted to the SAE adapter/unit I have. I'm going to try attaching it to a small engine I have that way I can really test the different RPM's and it what does what. I PM'd Eric here on the forum to see if he could chime in. I'm just not sure how linear the or not the voltage curve is for these units. I only have two data points. It looks to me that the PMG is wires in high wye configuration based on what I see how it's wired.

I'd be very curious to hear what Bob has to say about his units. There is zero information on the units in regards to part numbers etc....

Henry thanks for Chiming in! Appreciate it.

-RJ

Quote from: Henry W on November 27, 2022, 05:58:37 PMThe engine that powered the Daul unit was a Ford LRG-425 industrial engine.

It has a continuous rating of 72 hp with LP (propane)

Here are the specs:

Gasoline (corrected per SAE J1995)

Fuel Specification.

.87 A.K.I.

Rated Power @ 3600 RPM ....

.Intermittent: 74 HP (55 kW)

Continuous: 63 HP (47 kW)

Peak Torque @ 1800 RPM.

.Intermittent: 123 Ft. Lbs. (167 Nm)

Continuous: 104 Ft. Lbs. (141 Nm)

Power @ 1800 RPM.

.Intermittent: 42 HP (31 kW)

Continuous: 36 HP (27 kW)


Natural Gas (corrected per SAEJ1995)

Fuel Specification.

.1050 BTU/FT3

Rated Power @ 3600 RPM.

.Intermittent: 74 HP (55 kW)

Continuous: 63 HP (47 kW)

Peak Torque @ 2600 RPM.

.Intermittent: 115 Ft. Lbs. (156 Nm)

Continuous: 98 Ft. Lbs. (133 Nm)

Power @ 1800 RPM.

.Intermittent: 39 HP (29 kW)

Continuous: 33 HP (25 kW)


Liquefied Petroleum Gas (corrected per sae J 1995)

Fuel Specification.

.HD-5

Rated Power @ 3600 RPM.

.Intermittent: 84 HP (62 kW)

Continuous: 72 HP (54 kW)

Peak Torque @ 1800 RPM.

.Intermittent: 133 Ft. Lbs. (180 Nm)

Continuous: 113 Ft. Lbs. (153 Nm)

Power @ 1800 RPM.

.Intermittent: 45 HP (34 kW)

Continuous: 38 HP (28 kW)

\
Did you ever run the engine with the heads on it? I'm  curious if it was indeed 1800 rpm, I've been doing some testing at at ~1250 rpm I'm getting 25 bolts no load, I put a small load on it and was at about 21 volts. Motor did slow down some. I started a thread in the PMG sub forum.

Quote from: Tom Reed on September 13, 2023, 02:57:42 PMThat sounds like a good plan. My 6/1 puts out a steady 3 kw with brief loads of 3.6 kw when the microwave is on. I just went and checked to see what's available these days for PM 48v generators and there is quite a bit to choose from and some are dirt cheap! https://www.amazon.com/Alternator-Gearless-Permanent-Insulation-Horizontal/dp/B0BG47RMGV/ref=d_m_crc_dp_lf_d_t1_sccl_2_2/139-6785606-9829854?content-id=amzn1.sym.5d471845-5073-424b-b27b-c0676f48a016&pd_rd_i=B0BG47RMGV&psc=1

Yes I have seen those, and yes they are cheap. However, I have yet to see any real world testing on them so I haven't looked at them with any real merit. If you come across any please do share.

Well hiccup number one came to fruition 

Rectifier came in a day early, my hasty calculations implied the voltage would be the sum the of the three phases, this isn't correct its the L-L-L mean * 1.35, so in reality spinning at the current speed of ~1250 rpm I'm only getting about 25v DC. Which is interesting because I was told these ran at 1800 RPM. My small motor can't spin the head any faster without billowing some smoke. I have a larger motor but not the correct pulley's for them.

Quote from: Tom Reed on September 12, 2023, 08:20:16 PMThat might not be enough engine. The general rule is 2hp per KW. 200 x 48 = 9600w or almost 10 KW or 20hp. Do you have a way to limit the current?

Forgot to answer your question, yes the plan is to use an MPPT controller from the rectified AC to charge the batteries/loads. I will use that to limit the current. 100 Amps or 4800 watts or so should be sufficient, or if I go by full charge on a 48v Lifepo4 pack that's ~56 volts or 5600 watts about the limit of the 12/2. Otherwise I would probably need to piggy back two MPPT controllers together. I don't think the complexity of two controllers is worth the trouble.

Absolutely I won't have enough engine to tax this unit. That's the beauty of the setup. With a small (relatively) battery bank it will act as giant flywheel accepting larger short duration loads. During low load time the engine can spin down to a much lower RPM to maintain the battery bank charge.

I used to live on 75 acres. No houses in sight. Liked it for any years but with kids it was getting too much to haul them around. We moved, 1000 miles south since then. Rented a house for several years, finally built one ir lot. Purchased 4.5 acres in 2018. My lot would sell easily for twice if not 3x what I paid for it. It's considered a pretty bit lot for this area. Lots of developments going up on postage stamps.

OKay, Starting to get this figured out. I did some testing today. My little 1/3 HP motor with a 4" pulley on it and the PMG with a 5.5" pulley on it. So Motor spinning at ~1725 rpm the PMG is spinning ~1250 RPM I'm getting about 17v on each phase. So about 51v AC currently being produced. I have a 3 phase rectifier on order. Nothing fancy, 16 bucks off Amazon.

I'm no expert but that should give me about 68v DC. Plenty to charge a 48v bank and plenty of head room to ramp the speed up if needed for more current. Plan is to belt drive this to a lister 12/2.

So I picked up two of these units many years ago. Apparently they're from a telecom unit that had two running together in parallel for 400a @ 48v hooked up to a NG engine. Not sure if it was spec's at 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm. There is some information on the Micro Go gen forum but the site seems to be down. At least you can't get into any sub forms.

Anyway apparently these are rated for 48v @ 200a each. I'm really just in the testing phase but I haven't a clue as to how to wire these up and there is ZERO information about them online. I gather as most units like these utilize 3 phase AC output, my intention is to rectify the output to DC and run that into a charge controller/inverter.  Any help would be appreciated.

I posted this on the lister forum as well, as this forum wouldn't let me get into any of the sub forums for some reason. It now seems to be working.

Thank you.

Wow just read about this ... crazy

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/power-outage-moore-county-investigation-monday/index.html

Quote from: veggie on December 01, 2022, 09:27:14 AMRJ

That alternator is a total BEAST. I love it.
I can only imagine the cost 
Nice find.

veggie

I picked up 4 of them , I don't recall what I paid as it was many years ago. I'm just not sure weather to go this route and modify them for 48v or use a big pmg I picked up from Henry that is already 48v.

Quote from: Tom Reed on November 29, 2022, 11:10:16 AMThanks for resurrecting a great thread RJ, I have a CS6/1 and a spare MX60 and would really like to get rid of the ST5 generator head I'm using now. I really like the idea of an axial generator for simplicity and reliability. The wind generators on the linked site seem to max out around 30 RPM and we need something around 650 RPM.

If you look around I've found some in the 300 rpm range the problem with the wind built ones is as you get into the Multi KW range wind generators spin slower , i assume because of the larger blade diameter. So an off the shelf wind axial flux generator is going to be a problem for us.

Aside from building one from scratch as has been demonstrated it's going to be hard for us to get away from some sort of speed manipulation , and that involves belts ...

Pretty interesting, bit pricey

https://www.hurricanewindpower.com/axial-flux-generator-dual-stator-2-8-kw-48v/